What Is In A Name? A Big Al Rant

[Elk]

Originally Posted by yoblues

The deal is Toyota and Honda don't change the CAR names. The rest of it is irrelevant. Every one knows what a Camry or Corolla is. Everyone knows what an Accord or Civic is. The big three kept constantly changing the vehicle names. Eveyone knew what an Impala was then Chevy dumped it for a while and we got Lumina (barf). Ford had the new Zepher (an old Lincoln name) now we have the WXYZ. Think back to all the famous big three car names that have been dumped while Toyota and Honda never change. Names do mean something.

Well at least Chevy has stuck with Malibu since 1997.

[gmlifer]

GM seems to constantly change names to run away from a negative image of the old name. I think that sticking with the same name on a vastly improved model would have the opposite effect.

Keep the Gran Prix name on the new model and the public will recognize the name from day 1 and will also be thinking " Wow! That's a Gran Prix? They sure have come a long way since I owned one of those! "

One I don't understand is the renaming of the Lesabre. It won JD Powers awards year after year, yet they renamed it to Lucerne. My Dad has a 10 year old Lesabre and he told me the other day...I was thinking about buying a new Lesabre but they don't make those anymore. With a 10 year good experience with his car he would like to replace it with the same but he dosen't have the same comfort level with models he has never heard of.

[gmlifer]

While we are discussing car name games I have to post my opinion of the CRAZY G-NAMES. What is Pontiac smoking?

Pontiac has invested many years and millions of $$ in their heritage names like "Bonneville, Gran Prix, Tempest, Firebird, GTO, ect. " and now some genius marketing guru thinks that throwing that away is a good idea.

These are household names like Crest toothpaste or Gatorade.

I would like to see how long these guys could keep their jobs if they worked for one of these companies and came up with the brilliant idea of changing those names that everyone knows from Crest to C3 or Gatorade to G1. They would be laughed out of the board room.

Could this be one reason that GM is slipping in Market Share? Maybe their long time customers are in a state of confusion?

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

I absolutely hate toyota, but I gotta disagree with you here. The Impala doesn't compete with the Camry. It's still got some catching up to do, but I believe the next generation will close that gap completely.

Heck, the Impala shouldn't be competing with the Camry. That's the Malibu's job, at least in theory. The Impala should be competing with the Avalon.

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

Heck, the Impala shouldn't be competing with the Camry. That's the Malibu's job, at least in theory. The Impala should be competing with the Avalon.

The Lucerne can barely, if at all, compete with the Avalon... so the Impala? The only car in its class, IIRC, without an automatic climate control option?

The Impala doesn't compete with anything, IMO. It's basically in a class of its own (ever since DCX killed the Intrepid...) as a 'cheap big car' without tons of gizmos for fleets, rental car companies, and anybody else who needs something big and doesn't have big $$$$...

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by VivienM

The Lucerne can barely, if at all, compete with the Avalon... so the Impala? The only car in its class, IIRC, without an automatic climate control option?

The Impala doesn't compete with anything, IMO. It's basically in a class of its own (ever since DCX killed the Intrepid...) as a 'cheap big car' without tons of gizmos for fleets, rental car companies, and anybody else who needs something big and doesn't have big $$$$...

Well, that is the problem. But in theory, the Impala should be able to compete with the Avalon-both are from the respective car companies' mainstream brands, and both are large cars. That is:

Aveo-Yaris-Subcompact
Cobalt-Corolla-Compact
Malibu-Camry-Midsized
Impala-Avalon-Large

But you're right-it doesn't really work out that way, does it? The Lucerne is really more in the Avalon's class-in a way, the Avalon really is Toyota's Buick (large, near luxury car for old people).

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

Well, that is the problem. But in theory, the Impala should be able to compete with the Avalon-both are from the respective car companies' mainstream brands, and both are large cars. That is:

Aveo-Yaris-Subcompact
Cobalt-Corolla-Compact
Malibu-Camry-Midsized
Impala-Avalon-Large

But you're right-it doesn't really work out that way, does it? The Lucerne is really more in the Avalon's class-in a way, the Avalon really is Toyota's Buick (large, near luxury car for old people).

I don't know how the Avalon sells south of the border, but up here they're here. Toyota prices them WAY, WAY, WAY too high. So I'm extremely reluctant to think that GM needs any more models to go after what seems like a low seller... especially if that means abandoning a market niche (the Cheap Big V6 family car) that GM owns. Up here, you can get a 3.5L, 221HP, auto., 6 passenger Impala for $25K (CAD) MSRP... and that's no doubt why the Impala sells well. For that kind of $$$$$, Toyohonda will barely sell you a 4 cyl. Camry/Accord...

The Lucerne is the obvious competitor for the Avalon. The Avalon was designed to be a better LeSabre than the LeSabre, which used to be the benchmark for full-sized non-luxury cars before GM beancounters turned it into a senior citizen yawnmobile. I still think the Lucerne WOULD be a credible competitor (it LOOKS better, for one thing) if they would just add the telescoping steering wheel from the DTS and fix the underhood problem. The drivetrain from the Lambdas would go a great way...

Hmm... that almost makes me think that Chevy should have three models:
- mid-sized fully featured (Malibu)
- Cheap Big Car (Impala)
- more featured Avalonesque big car (Caprice? on either the G body FWD or Zeta RWD)
But then that squeezes Buick out...

[Elk]

Originally Posted by VivienM

if they would just add the telescoping steering wheel from the DTS and fix the underhood problem.

The LaCrosse CXS comes with telescoping steering wheel and the 3.6L V6.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

Heck, the Impala shouldn't be competing with the Camry. That's the Malibu's job, at least in theory. The Impala should be competing with the Avalon.

Perhaps in the hypothetical world.
As it is the Impala would get creamed in a comparo with Camry, if I know my Car and Driver.
In my world, Malibu and Impala both compete with Camry because that's where the price points are.
Lucerne and some Caddys compete with Avalon, at least price wise.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by gmlifer

While we are discussing car name games I have to post my opinion of the CRAZY G-NAMES. What is Pontiac smoking?
Pontiac has invested many years and millions of $$ in their heritage names like "Bonneville, Gran Prix, Tempest, Firebird, GTO, ect. " and now some genius marketing guru thinks that throwing that away is a good idea.

These are household names like Crest toothpaste or Gatorade.

I would like to see how long these guys could keep their jobs if they worked for one of these companies and came up with the brilliant idea of changing those names that everyone knows from Crest to C3 or Gatorade to G1. They would be laughed out of the board room.
Could this be one reason that GM is slipping in Market Share? Maybe their long time customers are in a state of confusion?

You're singing my song, gmlifer.

Pontiac did these "EURO" names before, when they were doing Version 2 of We Are BMW...sung to the tune of, "We Are Fam-ily!"

Remember the 60000, the so-BMW-like 60000STE, the J20000 (extra zeros added because the names are all zeros IMHO, and no matter how many times you add 0 + 0, you still = 0), etc. ad unsuccesseum.
One of GM's most amusing and endearing traits--like the cute puppy who is now an eight-year-old pooch but still pees in the corner--is they don't seem to learn much from past mistakes and missteps. General Van Winkle repeatedly walks through the same pungi pit fields, steps on the same sharp, poop-covered sticks, and ends up with the same festering wounds.
Apparently dissing and otherwise blowing off loyal customers is part of GM's corporate clueless culture.
I'm starting to wonder if they will always be in the second echelon in most comparison tests and sales contests.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by Elk

Well at least Chevy has stuck with Malibu since 1997.

That makes it a Classic of sorts, doesn't it?

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Elk

The LaCrosse CXS comes with telescoping steering wheel and the 3.6L V6.

Yes... which makes the omission of the telescoping steering wheel from the Lucerne CXS look even more unusual. (Keep in mind, too, that the DTS has it, so the amount of engineering required is next to zero...)

Then again... This is no different than the you-can-get-auto-climate-control-on-a-Malibu-but-not-an-Impala problem.

Why does somebody at GM think that more expensive, newer models can lack features available in lower end models?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by VivienM

Yes... which makes the omission of the telescoping steering wheel from the Lucerne CXS look even more unusual. (Keep in mind, too, that the DTS has it, so the amount of engineering required is next to zero...)

Then again... This is no different than the you-can-get-auto-climate-control-on-a-Malibu-but-not-an-Impala problem.

Why does somebody at GM think that more expensive, newer models can lack features available in lower end models?

I think it’s some silly protect Cadillac thing “we need to come up with a reason to charge $7,000 more for a DTS then a Lucerne so lets limiting what you can get on a Lucerne”.

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Elk

I think it’s some silly protect Cadillac thing “we need to come up with a reason to charge $7,000 more for a DTS then a Lucerne so lets limiting what you can get on a Lucerne”.

Yup, and the lack of auto climate control on the Impala is a "we need to come up with a reason to get people to buy Lucernes", too.

But in the Lucerne case, it's even more stupid, because I thought the long-term plan was to get people who want old school cushy luxury cars to buy Buicks so Cadillac could focus on sporty Euro-style luxury? (Isn't that why they cheaped out on the DTS sheet metal?) Yet you have the choice between the good-looking-but-underequipped Lucerne and the hideous gizmo-filled DTS...

With managers like this, GM doesn't need Toyohondassan's help to lose market share...