What Is In A Name? A Big Al Rant

[BlackCadillac]

Great point! No one ever asks what platform the "new" camry or accord is on - no one seems to care. However everyone makes fun of the Impala because it's on the 'W' platform and that's such an awful thing I guess. No one really knows why tho - that's what is funny to me.

Cadillac gets blasted for having their lower end model on the "epsilon" platform while Lexus gets only praise for having their mid model on the "camry" platform?

Always a double standard...

[hq308]

Can anyone name me a platform or engine name of a Toyota or Honda?

How many enthusiasts buy Toyota's and Honda's?
In Japan they probably know the names of the platforms and engines because they're domestics there.

The average buyer probably doesn't really care about names that much, personally I think the average consumer is smart enough to realise that things evolve. If you tell someone you just bought a new Chevy they don't automatically think of an old shoebox Chevy do they?

At the end of the day it's the quality of the products that matters most and if the product is good people will remember it and if it's bad even more people will remember it.

[Elk]

I hate to tell you Big Al but you have lost touch with reality. Outside of us GM enthusiasts the only names anyone will recognize is Small Block and Northstar if they own a Cadillac.

If you go to a Honda website people will recite Civic platform and engine codes just like we can recite which cars ride on the Delta platform.

[GM-10]

GM's pr department could stop this overnite.

These platform names give the media an easy coat hook to hang their own shortcomings and biases on.

The so-called epsilon 'platform' spawns the 9-3, Vectra, Aura, last-next generation Malibu. humans look for patterns. Sometimes humans find patterns where they don't exist. Spsilon makes it too easy.

In the end...a Malibu is a malibu. etc..

[BigAls87Z28]

Like I stated, outside of enthusaists, no one else knows about the Honda or Toyota platforms. But, read an article about the Impala, and there will be mention of the W body platform, followed by some comment about the age of the chassis. Same goes for the G body...its the age associated with the platform, and the chassis names have gotten so much recognition that they have entered the lime light. So now every mention of the W body brings back this idea that its an outdated, 20 year old platform that couldnt possibly keep up with the likes of its FWD counterparts. Its not about what the enthusiast knows, its about what the standard people know and what the media reports on. Toyota has had the same 3.0 V6 in the Camry and Avalon since the early 90's with just minor revision, but when was the last time you heard about that? Same goes for the platform, the Camry/Avalon/Highlander/RX/ES platform has not changed much over the past 10-12 years. But, does anyone know about that? No, because there is no name or anything else associated with it, so there is no attachment to it. Its just a random platform that no one knows about...but when there is an NEW model, no one exploits the old chassis like they do with GM.

[GotAWD]

you do realise that that platforms you mentioned, B,J,G,W. are deisignated VIN ID. B's the old RWD Impalas,Roadmasters and Broughams. J's the cavs/sunturds, G the old montes and buick regals. i dont see how a letter is a name when its taken from the 4th letter of the VIN.

although i do understand your point when people think the LS7 is derived from a the old 350 V8s from the days of my grandfather. thats just pure ignorance. that also goes for the impala comment too. if people dont realise that the Caprice/Impala where canceled from RWD platform to FWD platform that is ignorant lazyness.

another example of ignorance is working for GM. the SHOPFOREMAN, thought the new Cobalt was the same platform as the old Cavalier. so even when GM tries to eliminate old outdated things, the public and those who are supposed to be knowledgeable in the field may still not even try to educate them selves on whats new with new product.

big Al i think the problem is trying to educate the public with what has changed in the world of today.

thats what i think.

[mkaresh]

What Toyota and Honda generally do is replace the entire platform every other design generation. Since each generation is usually five years these days, that means once every ten years. Both cars are now on the second generation of their current platforms, so both will probably be new from the ground up the next time they are redesigned. Which isn't much longer for the Accord.

The 2006 Civic was an all-new platform.

Nissan actually totally redid the platform for the 2007 Altima, even though the platform was new five years ago. No idea why they felt this was necessary, maybe to reduce torque steer and increase structural rigidity. The look of the car didn't change that much.

As for names, Nissan enthusiasts know all the engine family names. Especially VQ.

Finally, I wouldn't be so sure that the Japanese engines change so infrequently. For example, the 3.5 going into many Toyotas is all-new. I think the Accord's V6 dates to 1997, though. Time will tell whether the redesigned 2008 Accord gets an all new engine. I suspect it will.

[GotAWD]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

As for names, Nissan enthusiasts know all the engine family names. Especially VQ.

dosent nissan just have like 3 engines, a 4 cyl, the VQ's and a V-8. im just gonna have to educate myself on this as i have mentioned in my post just above.

[guitarlix]

I guarantee if you visit the VTEC.net forum, all the Honda fanboys there will be able to reel off engine codes like they were listing the letters in the English alphabet.

Here's the list of Honda engines BTW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Honda_engines

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by GotAWD

dosent nissan just have like 3 engines, a 4 cyl, the VQ's and a V-8. im just gonna have to educate myself on this as i have mentioned in my post just above.

They definitely have more than one four-cylinder.

[BigAls87Z28]

I can also list off several Honda engines. But do the engines come with an engine cover that is labled so? I know what a B16 is and I know what an H22 is. But I bet you more peole know the difference between an Ecotec and a Northstar. Pick up one of the big car rags that you have lying around your house, and find an article talking about a GM car. Best expample is the Aura that has debuted in several rags over the past few months. They pinpoint the Epsilon chassis, and instantly connect the Aura with the Malibu and G6, which has already been torn apart every which way to Sunday. These notes are being taken down by the people buying these cars! The say "oh, its built off Epsilon...and they didnt liek the other cars from Chevy or Pontiac, so what is different about this one?"
You actualy can see some rippage on the ES350 in the COTY reviews, talking about it how this is the farthest seperation between the two...but with Camry taking COTY, I cant understand if thats a good thing or bad...but thats for another rant.

My point is, the names these platforms are given by GM, only attach an image or age, which over the past 10-15 years, has been torn apart at every chance they get. What if I were to tell you that I made the most advanced, most affordable platform, having the ability to be FWD or AWD, have a 4cy or 6cyl, 6spd autos, have the ability to flex from 2dr coupe to 5 dr wagon, but named it Jbody? It would instantly be pegged with the Jbody's of yore, and would already be put at the back of a list for buyers. The name game is a serious one, and I think that GM just should stop with the names outside of the CAR names. Platforms and engines...enough.

[cfch3399]

GM obviously has, as any other car maker, internal designations for their engines and platforms, which will quickly be picked up by enthusiasts. And from there on any so-called journalist can do a seach for a car and come up with the platform. So platform names won't go away. I personally like the Greek alphabet ones. Those are non-descript and neutral.
Engines need no names, especially this day and age when less than a handful of engines go into dozens of cars. What's a Northstar anyway. At some point it wasn't even an engine but a system. Can I get a STS without a Northstar. Is the Ecotec more eco-friendly than a Duratec, which, what, last longer.
It is true though that consumer don't know nor care about that sort of thing- unless it is mentioned in Consumer Reports. And for GM it is usually put in a negative light.
Fact is that marketers are a bunch of morons. And GM seems to have the worst kind, idiotic and evil because they seem to be sabotaging the very company for which they work. Aside from stamping a name on an engine cover for the sake of looks, there's no reason for them to market such thing, especially if the engine is technologically retarded.
What the imports have done properly with names though is not change the names of their cars, unlike domestics. Where is the Taurus (a great name for a car, btw)? S series-Ion-Astra...?

[mkaresh]

Not many people look under the hoods of their cars. I'm not sure my wife could tell you the color of her engine.

Similarly, I don't think Ecotec or Epsilon has much recognition.

These platform names were created for internal use, not for marketing purposes. The only time I remember a platform code being used for marketing purposes was with the Chrysler K-cars.

You'll also find the press mentioning platform names for Nissan, FF and FM.

Even without the names, the press would still connect the Aura with its siblings.

The Cadillac BLS problem isn't that it's so closely related to the 9-3, but that neither the BLS nor the 9-3 is competitive in their class. I doubt the 9-3 has won a single comparison test, but it has been at the bottom in a few.

[GM-Joe]

Nice letter, those are all good points.

One thing I don't like is the abbreviations, such as STS. I remember a movie called "A Clockwork Orange," there was a sports car in it called the Durango 95. I always thought that sort of car name would be cool, such as Eldorado 460, or CTS 570; that is a heck of a lot better than just STS, or CTS, or whatever. I actually like the classic names, but would like differentiation through numerical statuses; an Aura 360 would be a nice ride!

[mikesright]

I disagree that giving platforms names really does anything. When I first got into cars and car magazines a couple years back, I did not know of W- or N-Bodies, or F-Bodies, etc. I knew a car was good from driving it or sitting in it, etc.

Also, GM is going to use 7 global platforms for the most part, with some local variations now. GM is updating and completely redesigning the platforms, making them more flexible to do stuff like make a Saab with a European ride and a Pontiac with a sporty one. They will also redesign the platforms much more often now, with a more comprehensive strategy worldwide, that will reduce by far the costs of updating it all.

And people who know motors? Well, anybody worth their salt know the small-block Chevy motor is a world-beater. I think the connection of people to it has never been stronger, as the LS2 and LS7 have brought it prestige.