The Truly Global GM: One and a Half Years Later

[BigThreeForever]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

Why do you keep pushing this Daewoo Buick thing, the car looks like a warmed over version of the last Saturn L series, I am all for Buick getting a snazzy entry level mid-sized sedan or coupe, but not some Korean thing with a Buick badged slapped in the middle of the grille, pushing something like that while calling the G6 a "rebadge" (that word has totally lost all it's meaning) costs you some points, with me at least.

I agree entirely, Mr McGarrett. I have a great deal of respect for Ming and thoroughly enjoy his thoughtful articles. Yes, GM should actively seek to leverage its global portfolio as and where appropriate. The Saturn Astra, for example, if priced right, may just work. Ditto the Pontiac G8. Both seem to fit well with their divisional identities.

However, if Buick is ever going to be reborn as a credible premium or semi-premium brand, it will not do so by re-badging and re-grilling an achingly bland and mediocre Daewoo.

Also, this obsession that many have over China-market Buicks is bizarre. I personally find them dreadful. Moreover, there is something seriously wrong when China - a very, very different market than the US, and a very immature one, to boot - is seen as defining the future of Buick, the very cornerstone on which GM was built.

Buick urgently needs real investment in Buick-specific products, exceptional products . . . the LaCrosse replacement needs to be as big a leap over the present lacklustre car as the Enclave was over the Rendezvous.

Nothing less will do.

[mbukukanyau]

Ming, Great Article..
I think you failed to mention that Solstice is not a Re badge.
So Pontiac has
Solstice,
G6,
GOAT
Vibe that are truly Unique to it

I like the Idea of a Holden Pontiac.. unity- It should be a two way street.. with Solstice and Vibe being exported to Australia.. etc and perhaps changing the Holden Markets to accomodate both Chevy, and holden.. or Chevy & Pontiac

Which would mean that Buick would have to go global.. with its own unique line of cars... and CUV's.. I really like their new design language.. Truly romantic essence of the automobile.. Its like Buick.. like nothing else

[powervette]

Originally Posted by Ming

Japanese don't endlessly debate about "what the American consumer wants" before introducing cars like those in its Scion lineup --- cars that many predicted would fail for being "too Japanese".

I am glad GM stopped debating what American consumer wants, but American companies still debate what European consumer wants and that is the reason why still growing mid-size pick-up market in Europe is dominated by Japanese trucks as Hilux and Nissan Navara.
350Z ain't a success in Europe but Nissan is consequent and sells it here along with Murano.People like the Mustang much better but Ford says NO despite the fact it would be even a bigger bargain to buy one because of weak dollar. I pray GM will be different and decides to sell Camaro finally. And we want a Holden too it would do well as a Chevy flagship (not Opel because an Opel limousine should be less sporty, more elegant)
Once again enjoy Astra

[Ming]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Ming, Great Article..
I think you failed to mention that Solstice is not a Re badge.

Solstice is essentially a mechanical twin to the Sky, so it falls under "reskin". Maybe if they/when they do a hatch-hardtop version of the Solstice or Sky (without duplicating it in the other brand) that would change things up a bit more.

[TahoeMikeZ71]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

I like the Idea of a Holden Pontiac.. unity- It should be a two way street.. with Solstice and Vibe being exported to Australia.. etc and perhaps changing the Holden Markets to accomodate both Chevy, and holden.. or Chevy & Pontiac

Why would Australia want the Vibe?

[Butz]

I love reading your article, and I agree with a lot of your points except your idea of selling the Daewoo Tosca as a Buick for a lot of reasons.
1) It's underpowered.
2) Doesn't look like a Buick.
3) Not luxurious enough to be a Buick.
4) Buick should get the Chinese LaCrosse instead.

What GM needs to do is push Chevy globally and not just as rebadged GMDATs, GM NA has some great Chevy models like the HHR and new Malibu.
Then there's Buick and Pontiac, I believe GM should relaunch them worldwide. I currently live in the ME, and eventhough Buick and Pontiac haven't been sold in here since 1996 they still have recognition and It wouldn't cost GM much to import models like the Solistice and Encalve here. There's already some private importers here I saw them import cars like the Rendezvous and SSR which wasn't sold in the ME.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by Butz

I love reading your article, and I agree with a lot of your points except your idea of selling the Daewoo Tosca as a Buick for a lot of reasons.
1) It's underpowered.
2) Doesn't look like a Buick.
3) Not luxurious enough to be a Buick.
4) Buick should get the Chinese LaCrosse instead.

That's a good idea as well, and fine by me. I know I drooled over it when I was in China (You might change your mind if you saw one up close BigThreeForever). I guess I had not considered that GM might import the Chinese LaCrosse (W-body derived) as it discontinues W-body production here. Didn't stop GM from doing that with the 3400 in the Equinox.

Also, I think I'll reword my commentary so people don't focus so much on the "LaCrosse Replacement" wording. I think the LaCrosse and Lucerne could be replaced by a single vehicle like the Chinese LaCrosse, but I also think they could use an entry lux car at the low end for more volume.

[BigAls87Z28]

I will agree that GM has done well with its global operations so far, and has moved what seems to be mountains to get cars like G8 and Astra here, on top of revamping the Aveo, bringing the Vectra design. I also like the fact that GM is sending cars from the US out to its reaches of its empire.
I do agree that there are some lines that should not be crossed. I think that in the future, a true midsized car like Epsilon II could spawn a World-LaCrosse where it could be sold here in the US, China, also form Opels and Holdens.
I think that a Daewoo built Buick sold here in the US could cause a serious backlash against Buick. The Korean image is still shoddy, and Daewoo is still seen as a mega-cheap car here in the US. To tell someone that they have to pay 30k for a Buick...yeah.
I also dont think that a midsizer entry level for Buick would work well, as the new Malibu looks to take on the CamCord head on without any other car running along with it. I think that Aura would be the only thing close, followed shortly by G6. A midsize Buick, priced and equiped the same as the other 3 would only eat away at eachother.
I also forsee some problems for confusion. Opel and Saturn will share ideas and design, but Opel also shares some cars with Holden, and vise versa. Holden is turning into support for Pontiac and its pursuit for performance vehicles. Now, with this Holden/GM-NA future in a small-midsized RWD chassis, Im sure that this will make its way to Europe as well, so could this send the ties of some divisions into a tailspin? Will the brands start to become confused? The future will surely be exciting.
I hope that image cars like Camaro, Corvette, H3, and Caddy, along with the worth growth of Chevy and Buick as well as stretching engineering world wide will help GM become dominate where it needs to be. While Detroit needs to be the head, there is always that saying that 2 heads are better then one....and if thats the case, A head in the Pacific, a head in Europe, a Head in China and a head in America will only prove to be more dominate and be fast to react to regional as well as world enviroments then one head that is far away from the action.

[Elk]

I’m sorry but your idea of replacing the LaCrosse with the Tosca is stupid. The Tosca top engine is a 2.5L I6 that make 154 hp. Buick is not going to get young buyers with a car that so underpowered that it makes the 3.8 LaCrosse look like a rocket ship.

You say “look at the Aveo”. If you look at Aveo sales you will see as soon as it got competition sales dropped rock. GM had the #1 selling sub-compact in America and now it’s the Yaris. And it’s worse then it looks because the Aveo is 26% fleet while the Yaris is only 1%. In it’s first 10 months of sales the Yaris sold better then the Aveo did in it’s best year.

Holden using the Tosca as there Camry/Accord fighter is going to be a disaster.

[MCGARRETT]

I understand that Buick should get an entry level car, though I think that it should come in the form of a LaCrosse replacement based on the Epsilon 2, we have seen that Ep an support a full range of sedans, coupes and both soft and hard convertibles. Somewhere in there there could be room for a Ep based Buick, perhaps standard AWD could be included, or the availability of a turbocharged V6?

[Ming]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

I understand that Buick should get an entry level car, though I think that it should come in the form of a LaCrosse replacement based on the Epsilon 2, we have seen that Ep an support a full range of sedans, coupes and both soft and hard convertibles. Somewhere in there there could be room for a Ep based Buick, perhaps standard AWD could be included, or the availability of a turbocharged V6?

That would be awesome. Like a revival of the 80's turbocharged Buicks. But for whatever reason GM tends to not differentiate powertrains enough between brands when sharing platforms: G5, Cobalt, ION -- Current Malibu, G6, Aura --- Torrent, Equinox. The W-bodies are a little better now, but largely because of the "legacy effect" of the Grand Prix keeping its Supercharged 3800, for instance.

I've often been unrealistic in my desires of seeing more differentiation in the past, but GM has burned me once too often, or giveth and then taketh away (3900 + 6-speed manual G6 going away?).

If Pontiac's G5 were to get a turbocharged 4-banger, its almost a foregone conclusion that the Cobalt would as well. It's not the 1980's anymore when GM made more of an effort in this regard. (Turbo Sunbird, No turbo Cavalier) I was certain that GM wouldn't give the Torrent a 3400 and call it a day. But they did.

That kind of thing.

If I were to join the rest here and rally behind an Epsilon II Buick, I'm pretty certain at the end of the day it would have a carbon copy powertrain or something shared with at least one other GM brand Epsilon sibling, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[jbernie]

Another great write up Ming!.

My take on the globalisation.... I will and see how the negotiations with the UAW go. I think once they are complete GM may find more freedom to import more then they have, but more from Europe and South Korea than Australia.

Too much US demand for Australian products pushes GM to build a new factory, probably a better move to make use of an existing US plant instead.

[HEVguy]

Although there is debate about certain foreign models being good candidates to sell in the line-up of certain US brands, I think the most important thing is the OVERALL point of Mings commentary: GM is starting to and must continue to leverage its global engineering/manufacturing expertise to contribute to any and all markets that make sense. I agree with Ming that GM has made very good progress on this over the last 2 years. Although they still have plenty of work to do along this path, GM should be congratulated, as well as Ming for bringing this discussion out... both in pointing out GM's successes in this transition, as well as suggestions that still need work.

Overall, I agree, Holden and Pontiac could team as 'sister' brands for the models in which this makes sense. Also, GMDAT or other models could couple with Buick,... although this isn't as clear of a match or win-win in my view, the overall synergy is an important one to keep in mind. Giving Buick an entry car that is based on something other that Epsilon II is a good idea. What car is best for this, I am not sure. Maybe a VERY WELL DIFFERENTIATED Epsilon II would be best? Whatever the case, Buick could REALLY use a GOOD 'synergy partner' IMO.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by TAHOE LT

Why would Australia want the Vibe?

It's fuel efficient and AWD... plus it a good alternative to those Suzuki and corolla imports

[Ming]

Originally Posted by HEVguy

Although there is debate about certain foreign models being good candidates to sell in the line-up of certain US brands, I think the most important thing is the OVERALL point of Mings commentary: GM is starting to and must continue to leverage its global engineering/manufacturing expertise to contribute to any and all markets that make sense.

That was really the point of my article, not so much that the Tosca in particular needs to "replace" the LaCrosse.

Rumors of the Lacetti-based Taiwanese Excelle coming in as a small Buick hit the blogs in a timely coincidence today.



And give me a break, those guys who take offense at my simple suggestion. Hey, it could be worse, I could have suggested the Daewoo Tacuma as a Buick...