Time For a Smaller Car Standard?

[Olds88]

I'm all for this little cars being on sale. For those who want them they should be available. I believe everyone should have their choice of what type/class of vehicle they wish to drive. Those who say we can't have this is as bad as the hippies who want to take my truck from me and force me to drive a little deathbox.

Just please don't eliminate the big cars we have now. Our "big" cars are small enough (the idea that a Lucerne or 300 is fullsize is laughable). A 1970 Cutlass is a giant among today's cars. A 70 Delta-88 is bigger than a 2008 Suburban.

Oh well, guess I'll always be buying Avalanche/Suburban/Silvy's to get that traditional American car I want.

[t-rex]

Originally Posted by Ming

.

Ming, please tell me that this actually exists somewhere on Earth!!!

Which specialty company makes it??? I've seen that Renault 4 lookalike before, but I'm absolutely shmitten by this little Dodge Van thingy!

Intelligent and quite a strong argument you have, by the way. And needless to say, the raison d'etre went over the heads of everybody, based on the posts so far...

I'd kill to have a Kei Minibus. It's the PERFECT ride for me, since now that I've effectively become a "Mr. Mom", my car is basically used to drop the kids at school, commute back and forth from campus, and shuttle down to Whole Foods or Winn-Dixie to do the shopping. And living in a large(ish) city with mostly narrow one-way streets, a Kei minibus would suit us just fine as our 2nd vehicle. Our larger primary vehicle would be employed for any high-speed expressway duty.

[Whitesky]

Originally Posted by Olds88

I'm all for this little cars being on sale. For those who want them they should be available. I believe everyone should have their choice of what type/class of vehicle they wish to drive. Those who say we can't have this is as bad as the hippies who want to take my truck from me and force me to drive a little deathbox.

Just please don't eliminate the big cars we have now. Our "big" cars are small enough (the idea that a Lucerne or 300 is fullsize is laughable). A 1970 Cutlass is a giant among today's cars. A 70 Delta-88 is bigger than a 2008 Suburban.

Oh well, guess I'll always be buying Avalanche/Suburban/Silvy's to get that traditional American car I want.

Exactly, build what people want. But don't try to DICTATE what people "should" drive. Fad or not I like SUVs. They can be used to drive a load of people, carry crap and are fantastic in snow.

[GM-Joe]

I think Kei cars are too small for the U.S as most importantly too inhumane for a developed and strong country such as the U.S.; Mexico or Central America, or even China it makes sense but not here. I would like to see the Beat and Trax make it here, that is about as small as I'd like to see. What I don't want to see is Accords and such becoming the size of a LeSabre and getting the same mileage as the LeSabre. The Japanese may make Kei cars, but they, just keep making their vehicles bigger and bigger and less efficient and that kind of stuff needs to stop.

[redimpss5]

Well, My Smart for two car weighs 1808lbs, and I am sure I am not in a hurry to get in a crash with it even though it has front and side air bags. I still love a big car!! With the price of "small cars" I am looking at a new Tahoe to add to the list of cars in the garage!

[MonaroSS]

I think Ming raises an interesting topic.

However, instead of limiting where or how fast such car can go and creating a whole complex set of regulations for them, I would use far less restrictive but more advisory definitions for this class of vehicle. I would base it on contractual notification and consent.

Drivers and passengers should have free choice when they are fully advised of the facts.

As an option for any car that gets over 50mpg combined City/Highway cycle:

1/. It need not have any airbags, side intrusion protection or other add-on or built-in crash protection capability for the benefit of the passengers, but it must comply with all current pedestrian safety requirements.

2/. It can be of any size within current car size regulations but must be able to drive straight and safely for other road users at speeds up to and including national highway speed limits.

3/. It must only be driven by a driver over 18 years of age when carrying no passengers.

4/. It must only be driven by a driver over 25 years of age when carrying passengers and not carry any passenger under the age of 18 years.

5/. It most have a large 12 inch by 6 inch red plastic sign ahead of each passenger seating position clearly stating that the vehicle has no airbags or crash technology, is dangerous to travel in and is illegal for any passenger under 18 years of age.

Such simple clear regulation leaves the manufacturers free to give consenting adults what they want in a very frugal vehicle without other government limitation. And it prevents class action legal actions with its cigarette packet style warnings and stops dead complaints about innocent children. There would be a market for such vehicles for adults only; just as there is a market for high-powered road bikes that are effectively limited to adult use.

[member12]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

Tiny cars such as the Smart car is perfectly fine, but should be regulated as to WHERE they are allowed to drive. Those cars should be limited to city driving only (NYC, Philly, etc.) where high speeds are not reached and the odds of getting hit by a Tahoe going 75mph doesn't exist.

I don't care what their crash ratings claim, those tiny cars won't stand a chance if in a real world accident with a fullsize car/SUV/truck.

I think you are right....cars like the Smart shouldn't be allowed on the freeway unless they are in the right lane only. I think it's, what, a B class car?

They should be able to maintain 85mph uphill if they want to drive it on the interstate in this country.

I's probably perfect for city driving, though....but not in a place that has a good public transit system. Car and Driver tested one that cost $15,000 and gets the same mileage as a honda civic, so I am not impressed. A base MINI Cooper handles better and cost only slightly more.

As for safety, it's easier to make a small car pass a crash test than a large one due to less force being involved. I don't think the Smart is a safe car regardless of crash test. I guarantee you that the Smart driver is in danger if any normal car hits it at even moderate speeds. That's another reason it should stay off the freeway.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by t-rex

Ming, please tell me that this actually exists somewhere on Earth!!!

Which specialty company makes it??? I've seen that Renault 4 lookalike before, but I'm absolutely shmitten by this little Dodge Van thingy!

Intelligent and quite a strong argument you have, by the way. .

Thanks T-Rex, and yes, there is a company in Japan that does these packages called DAMD - they do all sorts of body kits and conversions --- the one for this particular van is under $2K, I believe, and is called the DAMD Locoboy Type II. I'd kill for one, too!

They have an English ordering page link as well -- here's the main site: http://www.damd.co.jp/

The one with the beige paint I posted earlier was actually a Honda as mentioned above - Here's the Suzuki Every version of that same "Locoboy" style body kit/conversion in black, including the interior: http://www.damd.co.jp/newcar/new_every.shtml

[johnriley]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

Tiny cars such as the Smart car is perfectly fine, but should be regulated as to WHERE they are allowed to drive. Those cars should be limited to city driving only (NYC, Philly, etc.) where high speeds are not reached and the odds of getting hit by a Tahoe going 75mph doesn't exist.
...

This is what is done in Europe. Not with smarts, but with smaller cars, such as:

http://www.automobiles-ligier.com/

[johnriley]

BTW, you can buy used kei cars in Canada. I have seen a Figaro and S Cargo in my Toronto neighborhood. (Wonder if the importer lives nearby?)

http://www.kei-cars.com/

[Penthos]

Originally Posted by Ming

Time For a Smaller Car Standard?
By Ming
www.gminsidenews.com
5/12/08
You can speed down the freeway on a Suzuki Hayabusa crotch rocket,

As a "sport-bike" rider I get a little irritated with the notion that anyone who rides a non-cruiser (ie: Harley) is a speed-demon. Can we get past this stereo-type that all people riding so called "crotch-rockets" are young men driven to speed, do wheelies and all sorts of crazy things?

I'm a 32 years old male who rides my Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R for both pleasure and commuting to work. I chose to ride a sport-bike instead of a cruiser simply because I enjoy the feel and handling capabilities compared to a heavier cruiser. In a normal year I put anywhere from 8-9k miles a year on my bike. Currently my motorcycle has 29k miles on it. I'll be putting heated grips on my bike to extend my riding season very soon. Another rider near me, who is a 60-ish male rides his ZX-9R about 30k miles year.

If anyone simply looks at the people riding motorcycles these days, who do you tend to see wearing protective clothing? Sure there are those sport-bike riders who wear insufficient clothing. However, you will see those who do! I've put serious money in my protective clothing to make sure that I have the best chances at surviving a fall, if it happens. Yes, I've gone down once due to road-grime (nope, speed wasn't a factor) but I walked away with NO injuries.

So it would be nice to actually get past this negative image that ALL sport-bike riders are crazy. I will fully admit that there are those who are, but not all. You might as well say everyone who drives a Mustang is drag-racer! I know that isn't the case, but if 1 out of 100 have drag-raced on the street it must be true!

As for safety on the street, it would be nice if people actually drove a little more careful with the knowledge that more and more people are actually riding their motorcycles. How about checking your blind-spots? How about not pacing the driver in the middle or slow lane on the expressway while your in the "passing" lane? How about not driving down the "passing" lane when NO ONE is in the middle or slow lane? How about using your turn-signals to let people know what you're doing? How about using your brakes to indicate that you're slowing down instead of just letting off the throttle? How about not reading/putting on make-up/shaving/etc etc while you're driving? If we as a people actually tried to be responsible for our driving maybe more drivers (of motorcycles, cars and trucks) would make it home safely to their families.

[bcjohnso99]

If the market opens up for these small cars, the Big3 domestics are as dead as dinosaurs. The rest of the world has 60+ years of experience - that's a big head start. The Big 3 still haven't figured out how to package sub-compacts after 30+ years of trying - they're way out of their league in micro cars.

Bottom line - we need city cars out of respect for the environment but if the market opens up and they're not build in US/Canada, our auto industry will be in big trouble.

[SUPERBADD75]

i don't think that safety is the only issue with smaller cars in America, but it's definitely a concern. with a bike, of course you know you're not as safe and it's a risk you assume when you buy. with a car, regardless of what you know intellectually, you feel like you should be safer because you're enveloped with a full body, with doors and windows, and unfortunately with a Kei car (or the like) you're just not. in fact, in some types of accidents, you could be in more danger. with a motorcycle you may be thrown off in a crash, but with a helmet and some other protective gear, that can be a blessing in some cases. with a tiny car, you could get trapped inside and not have the ability to get out because the small structure crushes to the point that the doors won't open, or you get stuck under the steering wheel, or something of that nature. that possibility worries me about tiny cars. if there weren't so many SUVs on the road it wouldn't be as big a deal, but the thought of driving around Suburbans and Excursions in a Pajero Mini just doesn't make me feel very comfortable. i don't think most people are ready for those tiny cars. once fuel prices take the large SUVs off the road, then we'll have a better chance.

[SUPERBADD75]

Originally Posted by bcjohnso99

If the market opens up for these small cars, the Big3 domestics are as dead as dinosaurs. The rest of the world has 60+ years of experience - that's a big head start. The Big 3 still haven't figured out how to package sub-compacts after 30+ years of trying - they're way out of their league in micro cars.

Bottom line - we need city cars out of respect for the environment but if the market opens up and they're not build in US/Canada, our auto industry will be in big trouble.

the Big 3 builds cars in other markets.... you know that right? the Ford Fiesta is pretty damn popular in Europe as i understand it.

[skylark68]

Someone already mentioned this but the USA has had a type of "Kei" car itself besides the Crosley. The American Bantam was an interesting little lightweight...



I think people should be able to buy what they want. My '68 Buick Skylark is almost as long as a current Suburban yet only weighs 3300 ibs. Why do we need cars that weigh so much? Why can't a G8 weigh 3300ibs.?