Time For a Smaller Car Standard?

[Ming]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Hi Ming:

How many have asked that the Camaro be re-introduced and now that the factory has given it the greenlight, will never purchase one?

GM must create smaller more long-range vehicles using State of the Art technology, or the company will come to a grinding halt.

Paul, I know there will be some here in Texas that will buy a pickup instead of a Camaro, despite being Camaro backers. I know a guy like that. He went for a new Mustang and got talked by the salesman into an F-150 instead...like I wrote in another thread, the pickup truck, once a farm vehicle, has become the "tough guy vehicle" (even for desk job guys) that the muscle car used to be...and it appealed to his vanity when the salesman said "A guy like you should be in a truck like this". So lots of guys I know at work drive a pickup who never needed one and are now talking about trading out, even some guys living in apartments and town homes who use the bed maybe once a year for a big screen TV they could've had delivered.

Maybe the Camaro, if the fuel economy is good enough, can capitalize on that.

Long range and high fuel efficiency are two different things, of course. You could get long range by putting a massive gas tank in an SUV and require a 200 dollar fill up.

A minicar with great fuel efficiency is not going to be the best long-hauler. Not unless your commute is long like mine with just a lot of back country roads with 35-65MPH speed limits.

[plane]

Ming, I've got just the car for you - an Isetta.
A friend's father owned a "mini-car" that was a British make.
It had a single front door which also doubled as the windshield.
And it rode on 3 wheels instead of 4.

http://www.isettatech.com/GalleryText.html

#$%@ if it didn't get great gas mileage. And he made it work in the Metroplex.

[Ming]

That's interesting, I thought those were all BMW's.

My favorite type of mincar for my commute would certainly be bigger than that with some kind of actual impact zone (and ability to carry cargo/people in a pinch).

Like the long best-selling 660cc Suzuki Wagon R:

[AndrewGS]

I'd love a Wagon R RR.

[plane]

Originally Posted by Ming

That's interesting, I thought those were all BMW's.

My favorite type of mincar for my commute would certainly be bigger than that with some kind of actual impact zone (and ability to carry cargo/people in a pinch).

Like the long best-selling 660cc Suzuki Wagon R:

Wow. I can see why you would want that.
What kind of gas mileage does something like that get?
Will it safely do 60-65 mph?

[Ming]

Yes, I've been in one up to 70MPH for short bursts (turbocharged). Usual cruising speed outside of the city being around 45MPH. It's hard for me to think in terms of fuel economy in Japan, but when I lived there gasoline was killer expensive with at least half of the cost in taxes, so these cars were, and continue to be, very popular gas sippers. Civics and Corollas are considered "mid size" since the Kei market is so huge (around half of the market). The WagonR has been the best selling Kei car for at least the last 5 years, and has been around since the early 1990's near the top of sales, long before the boxy Scion Xb (Toyota bbX) hit our shores. A frumpy (in my opinion), rounded off version of the WagonR was sold in Europe as the "Agila". Now a redesign of the Agila (? I think its a WagonR variant ?) called the "Splash" is on sale in the UK, but I still prefer the boxy, utilitarian WagonR.

Some Gaijin in Japan with a WagonR video I found, pretty funny:

"Oh yeah, she's a beast"

( This is the reality for most, but people do all sorts of aftermarket stuff to them to improve acceleration, etc. - double click on the YouTube video after its done and see the related videos in the sidebar )

+ YouTube Video

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Ming

I wish more people would let me have my minicar without attempts to sabotage it with a "can't do attitude". Or a reality-check that somehow sees into the future and assumes "no one" will buy a smaller car "like in Europe".

How many people here were saying “the Astra would out sell the Civic if GM just sold it here”. And we all know how that turned out.

What we have here is a bunch of car nuts like you that want some turbo mini car loaded with stuff and then we have the vast majority of Americans that have zero interest in a $20,000 mini car.

Americans want reliable, fuel efficient, cheap small cars. Daewoo is only good at cheap. Opel isn’t good at any of that stuff.

Originally Posted by Ming

Still, you simply have no ground to stand on if you try to take anything away from GM Daewoo's international sales success for GM, as Chevy in Europe, for instance. The Europeans were not going for Trailblazers, Ventures and Astros in huge numbers. That's the sort of car Chevy was offering over there with very limited success. It took GMDAT to turn Chevy of Europe into what it is today, a growing powerhouse. Opel has not seen the same kind of sales growth. Why?

Last I check Chevy’s sales in all of Europe are in the 200,000 a year range, nothing significant. Opel’s sales are in the 10,000,000 range. Daewoo’s massive growth has to do with the fact that they had nowhere to go but up.

Originally Posted by Ming

There must have been a reason that GM Daewoo came off as more attractive (aside from the styling, which GMDAT models generally have more up-to-date than South American small cars).

GM bought Daewoo because some bean counter figured out it was the cheapest way for GM to make small cars.

Originally Posted by Ming

Or perhaps GM should have stuck with its old Suzuki alliance, and kept pushing for a Metro replacement, instead of bringing the Aveo here.

Yes if GM actually gave a crap about their small cars that’s what they would have done. And if they had it would be selling like the Yaris is.

Right now GM should be selling a Chevy and/or Pontiac version of the Suzuki Swift and a basic version of the Wagon R.

[gaffo]

Originally Posted by plane

Ming, I've got just the car for you - an Isetta.
A friend's father owned a "mini-car" that was a British make.
It had a single front door which also doubled as the windshield.
And it rode on 3 wheels instead of 4.

http://www.isettatech.com/GalleryText.html

#$%@ if it didn't get great gas mileage. And he made it work in the Metroplex.

Here in Norman there is a guy that has a fully restored one and drive around town in it sometimes.

Isetta was made in Italy by a refrigerator - turned microcar maker. BMW bought them out in the third year or so of production and just continued to make the car until around 1960.

the new "tango" trike is the same size and the Isetta but even lighter - their soon to be released 300cc should allow interestate speeds. www.tangotrikes.com

Isetta's top speed was 55 mph and wieghed 750 ibs. Issetta is not a three wheeler - their are two wheels in back - just closely spaced together.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by Elk

Right now GM should be selling a Chevy and/or Pontiac version of the Suzuki Swift and a basic version of the Wagon R.

[AndrewGS]

Why are these Chinese Crapwagens allowed on the road but not privately imported Kei cars?

Link



Link

[Ming]

Originally Posted by AndrewGS

Why are these Chinese Crapwagens allowed on the road but not privately imported Kei cars?

Ha, well the top one probably qualifies as a motorcycle...!

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by Ming

Ha, well the top one probably qualifies as a motorcycle...!

It does.

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by Ming

Ha, well the top one probably qualifies as a motorcycle...!

Originally Posted by benroethig

It does.

Yeah, but isn't that a technicality? It's built of recycled rice paper and has three wheels. How is that any safer than a real car that just happens to be small?

Our country's laws are just asinine.

[benroethig]

They're not. They just bypass the regulations by getting classified as a motorcycle. If they had a 4th wheel and were classified as a car, there is no way in hell, they'd get past safety regulations. These are on the market because they're dirt cheap and economical.

[shopa]

America will need low cost, fuel efficient cars for the legions of people who will soon be poorer.

Kei cars are a special class of cars in Japan. They are limited to an engine size of 660cc and have vehicle size, but not weight, restrictions. They are made by many different Japanese car companies and they are mature designs that are reliable, and get up to 60 mpg. They can cost less than $10,000.
However, they cannot be driven in the U.S. because they don't meet collision safety requirements.

I believe that adding my crumple box invention to a Kei car will allow it to pass U.S. collision safety requirements.

See my website www.safersmallcars.com

An American car company can run with this idea.