Should Chevy import the Ute? No, not that one, this one........

[danup]

Something like this, if it passes crash regulations (convincingly) and can be sold in small volumes at a profit, would be a great low-risk gamble. If it fails, you quietly pull it off the market; if it succeeds, you've carved a new-car-buying niche where there wasn't one before.

[Z284ever]

Something like this, if it passes crash regulations (convincingly) and can be sold in small volumes at a profit, would be a great low-risk gamble. If it fails, you quietly pull it off the market; if it succeeds, you've carved a new-car-buying niche where there wasn't one before.

It sure would be in it's very own niche.

[SCCA1995]

EDIT: I did find the 1100 pound payload elsewhere, but now I can't find the payload for the Holden Ute.

I thought we've read recently that the Holden Ute had a 1600 kg payload capacity.

I would buy one sight unseen as long as it was under $20k. As of recently I've been seriously considering buying a classic BRAT or Rampage as I want something with a pickup bed with fuel economy at least in the high 20s and a tailgate that isn't so high.

Or you could just buy a classic mid-late '80s V6 El Camino.

[Z284ever]

And the Chevy Agile and Montana still have the Corsa B's platform.

It's Corsa's replacement architecture.

Corsa was built on GM4200 in 1983, which evolved to Gamma in 2000 which was then reworked by GM do Brasil to create their own Viva architecture in 2010.

Zeta, for example can trace it's roots to GM2800, yet we consider Zeta to be far more advanced.

[Z284ever]

1. Would it meet our certifications? And at what cost?
2. I say, "Hello, return of the S-10 pickup". Nice 'n cheap, small, and gets the job done.

If the certification / import costs are reasonable, why not? (Other than the costs to train for repairs and stocking parts for a whole new vehicle, and competition against the new Colorado coming in 1 year)....

Actually, I wish GM would do a new version of the S10. Those trucks sold like crazy for a VERY long time, with not a whole lot of investment. They were also fairly cool.

[Z284ever]

This was designed by GM do Brasil? Same people as new Colorado. Colorado was a global team including from GM NA, so the Equinox face is deliberate for the Pan-American market.

Wasn't the Colorado and it's architecture chiefly developed in Thailand?

[BBDOS CV8]

It's Corsa's replacement architecture.

Corsa was built on GM4200 in 1983, which evolved to Gamma in 2000 which was then reworked by GM do Brasil to create their own Viva architecture in 2010.

Zeta, for example can trace it's roots to GM2800, yet we consider Zeta to be far more advanced.

Er, no it can't. The VT-VZ chassis 1997-2005 was based on the old 1980's Opel chassis. Zeta owes almost nothing to it, other than lessons learnt from it's development - it's a total cleansheet design. Apart from perhaps a few bolts, they share nothing whatsoever. Not even windshield wipers.

Look underneath a GTO, then go look at a G8. The plastic fuel cells on the G8 sit where the rear semi-tralling arms mount on the GTO. And the GTO has a straight 3-link Macpherson front setup using i-beam lower control arms and a simple bushed track rod to maintain fore-aft geometry. Zeta has the same SLA setup as Alpha - a hinged rising-rate swinging arm on each side which is a four-five link setup depending on how you count the bushed link to the antiroll bar that maintains geometry laterally. On the old chassis the steering gear is behind the axle and the brake callipers to the front, on Zeta, they are vice-versa. There are no panels, no floor pressings, no suspension elements in common. That's about as different as you can get two RWD sedans.

Wheels, hubs, bearings, steering, all new. The new car uses one-piece side pressing from firewall to taillights, the old was built up from separate panels. The only thing common is the motors and trans. The old car used a Dana diff bolted to the floor via brackets, the new one uses ZF caged in a multi-link frame.

[LeSabre]

As long as this mini-Ute remained on a FWD/F-AWD platform, I would have no problem w/it being in Chevy's US/NA line up. They can even call/name it "El Camino".

But the Holden Ute should Only be sold in the US/NA as a GMC Sprint/Caballero/other!!!


!!!!

[Z284ever]

Er, no it can't. The VT-VZ chassis 1997-2005 was based on the old 1980's Opel chassis. Zeta owes almost nothing to it, other than lessons learnt from it's development - it's a total cleansheet design. Apart from perhaps a few bolts, they share nothing whatsoever. Not even windshield wipers.

Look underneath a GTO, then go look at a G8. The plastic fuel cells on the G8 sit where the rear semi-tralling arms mount on the GTO. And the GTO has a straight 3-link Macpherson front setup using i-beam lower control arms and a simple bushed track rod to maintain fore-aft geometry. Zeta has the same SLA setup as Alpha - a hinged rising-rate swinging arm on each side which is a four-five link setup depending on how you count the bushed link to the antiroll bar that maintains geometry laterally. On the old chassis the steering gear is behind the axle and the brake callipers to the front, on Zeta, they are vice-versa. There are no panels, no floor pressings, no suspension elements in common. That's about as different as you can get two RWD sedans.

Wheels, hubs, bearings, steering, all new. The new car uses one-piece side pressing from firewall to taillights, the old was built up from separate panels. The only thing common is the motors and trans. The old car used a Dana diff bolted to the floor via brackets, the new one uses ZF caged in a multi-link frame.

Did you ever hear the story about my grandfather's hammer?

[BBDOS CV8]

I thought we've read recently that the Holden Ute had a 1600 kg payload capacity.

Various Holden Ute models have different limits, mostly due to rubber as equipped but Sports models also ride much lower. The base V6, steel 16" wheel Omega with six-ply commercial rubber has a 900kg gross payload IIRC. That's ~2000lb The HSV Maloo, with 20" wheels and 35 or 40 series rubber is 600kg because of the sidewall load rating of the supersport tyre. The old Crewcab and One Tonners with SRA had a higher tray rating, as well as higher tow capability.

[BBDOS CV8]

Did you ever hear the story about my grandfather's hammer?

Not even close. They share as much in common as a Gen IV and Gen V Camaro - IOW, the name and the basic drivelines. Go have a look underneath. You can't even bolt the wheels from a GTO on a G8. Not only the studs, but the hubs are machined differently. And that's before you get to the offsets, brake sizes etc. Callipers, monotubes, steering geer, all the mounts, diff, halfshafts, everything's different, mounts differently, different dimensions. Even the steering locks, wiring loom.

[Z284ever]

Not even close. They share as much in common as a Gen IV and Gen V Camaro - IOW, the name and the basic drivelines. Go have a look underneath. You can't even bolt the wheels from a GTO on a G8. Not only the studs, but the hubs are machined differently. And that's before you get to the offsets, brake sizes etc. Callipers, monotubes, steering geer, all the mounts, diff, halfshafts, everything's different, mounts differently, different dimensions. Even the steering locks, wiring loom.

Don't get me wrong BB, I appreciate the differences. But VZ was the stepping off point for Zeta.

[Orbit Orange]

I thought we've read recently that the Holden Ute had a 1600 kg payload capacity.



Or you could just buy a classic mid-late '80s V6 El Camino.

I think that is 1600 kg towing although I very well could be mistaken.

[Orbit Orange]

Something like this, if it passes crash regulations (convincingly) and can be sold in small volumes at a profit, would be a great low-risk gamble. If it fails, you quietly pull it off the market; if it succeeds, you've carved a new-car-buying niche where there wasn't one before.

That is the exact point I've been trying to make for YEARS now on bringing the Ute here to the states.

[BBDOS CV8]

Don't get me wrong BB, I appreciate the differences. But VZ was the stepping off point for Zeta.

The two cars don't share a single panel, hard piece under the bonnet or underneath. The last Opel Omegas were made in South America in the early nineties and had been essentially unchanged since Opel had given up on RWD late eighties.

You might as well say Zeta is the stepping off point for Alpha, because they are much, much closer in design than Zeta and GM2800. GM2800 certainly informed Holden on what they wanted.

I've spoken with the people in the videos on the design and engineering of VE. Zeta came off their pens. It didn't start as Opel line drawings - they looked at Mike Simcoe's design for packaging the people and their baggage and worked backwards to fit a car underneath it. They didn't even look at what they'd developed from Opel in the preceeding decade, because they knew it inside out, including all it's pitfalls. They knew the front axle would move forwards to drop the engine behind it for balance, and the beltline would rise for safety and to provide passenger space. That and the raked styling and wedge, is Holden's work, along with the cut-to-length Zeta chassis concept. It has zero input from Opel, excepting any expats who may have been working at Holden at that time.