Saturn: Almost FIXED... Next?

[wnsfmike]

The 3.6 V6 w 265 hp and chain driven vvt camshafts is a great answer to all the Honda engine posts. I hope it goes into all the new Theta's, and GM drops the Honda engine, good as it maybe.

[RedVee8]

The trick is what they replace these with and when. If this is a oneoff investment in Saturn and these cars have to wait 7 or 8 years for replacement they may need saving all over again.
Having said that I did think when I saw the new Saturn line, "I wonder how many Buick fans would kill for that lineup." Hopefully, they won't have to wait long.
It seems to me that Saturn is eating Pontiac.

Pontiac + Olds = Saturn???

[peterj2706]

For now.... What's the plan for the 2008,09 models? GM has to listen to its customer base and add content each and every model, and fix whatever is wrong - right away! Don't wait for the next major refreshening! At the same time, what's being worked on for the next models? And they need to stick with the message - Saturn connected with customers big time, then seemed to throw it away. Rebuild that relationship.

Buick needs more like the Enclave and Lucerne (but please fix the seats in the Lucerne - too soft). The Enclave will appeal to a younger afluent customer, Lucerne will keep the older money coming in now.

Hate to see Buick with a real tough job, but they need to target Lexus and Audi, let Caddy have those other German guys.

I think Pontiac is the one in real trouble. Chevy should be able to continue with the performance image they historically have had, anchored by the best super car in the world.

[desmo9]

Thought I was seeing it, but I'm not. Sky is no more a rebirth of Saturn than Solstice is to Pontiac. A good car, but it's not gonna save the division. Vue isn't anything new, really, even with a hybrid offering. Outlook looks OK, but pushes no new envelope in the crossover world.

But why am I so discouraged? Aura says it all. The concept is stunning, but the production version is tame. Looks OK on the side and rear, but the front end got cycled through the vanilla mill on the way to production. I would have been ready to buy the concept, but the production version really left too much at the altar, and the G6 is a better draw, even. I think the L-series at its launch was almost as striking a car, and we know how that turned out.

Like Aura, the Saturn lineup (with the exception of the low-volume Sky) still seems pretty tame to me. Better, for sure, but certainly hasn't turned the corner by any means.

[kenman923]

I think that Buick-Pontiac-GMC will keep each other afloat with their own unique offerings.

[beelzebub]

Originally Posted by princecharmless

i should hurt you.buick doesnt want an old demographic and they really dont need it if they're trying to be an American Lexus.

isnt it a bit soon to be announcing that Saturn is revitalized.none of the new vehicles (except Sky) are even available. we dont know how they will sell.good looks doesnt win good rep.if that were the case Toyota would never be the super company it is today.

Oh please... Leave Buick alone... It is the last bastion of American design. They screwed it up enough already in the last decade or so.

If anything it needs lots of chrome. Sporty suspensions is the deathknell and should never come near Buicks. Lots of people including me are sick and tired of sport suspensions.

I'd say go back to the eighties and bring back those buicks after refreshing them. American cars have lost their identity and are in a serious identity crisis. If someone wants a Toyota then let them get it... Whats the point of changing Buick to go after those folks?

[beelzebub]

Originally Posted by desmo9

Thought I was seeing it, but I'm not. Sky is no more a rebirth of Saturn than Solstice is to Pontiac. A good car, but it's not gonna save the division. Vue isn't anything new, really, even with a hybrid offering. Outlook looks OK, but pushes no new envelope in the crossover world.

But why am I so discouraged? Aura says it all. The concept is stunning, but the production version is tame. Looks OK on the side and rear, but the front end got cycled through the vanilla mill on the way to production. I would have been ready to buy the concept, but the production version really left too much at the altar, and the G6 is a better draw, even. I think the L-series at its launch was almost as striking a car, and we know how that turned out.

Like Aura, the Saturn lineup (with the exception of the low-volume Sky) still seems pretty tame to me. Better, for sure, but certainly hasn't turned the corner by any means.

Why so glum, chum?

Perhaps the new designs will attract people. BTW, L-series was not as striking a car Aura is. But L-series atleast offered Opel designed engine built by Vauxhall in England. Aura is having none of that.. its GM parts bin all the way..

[beelzebub]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

agreed...my thoughts also. The saturns are great but ALL GM CARS HAVE AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT...NONE OF THEM ARE IMMUNED NOR PERFECT!I wanted to stess that point!

Yuck.. large fonts indicate immaturity.. Nobody takes them seriously.

BTW, is there such a word "immuned" and shouldnt "nor" come with "neither" before??

[nsap]

Originally Posted by beelzebub

Oh please... Leave Buick alone... It is the last bastion of American design. They screwed it up enough already in the last decade or so.

If anything it needs lots of chrome. Sporty suspensions is the deathknell and should never come near Buicks. Lots of people including me are sick and tired of sport suspensions.

I'd say go back to the eighties and bring back those buicks after refreshing them. American cars have lost their identity and are in a serious identity crisis. If someone wants a Toyota then let them get it... Whats the point of changing Buick to go after those folks?

I actually agree with you on the suspension part. There are really two types of luxury; the new performance luxury, and just plain old-fashion luxury (Lincoln, Buick, etc..). Obviously Caddy has the performance luxury sector covered, so why tarnish Buick's past greatness by occuping Caddy's position?

[hotrod747]

I've said this before. There is a serious lack of focus on Pontiac. It's image is the clearest- cut and obvious of all of GM's divisions, and the focus has been lacking for quite some time. It amazes me that the division has survived as long as it has with half- arse product they've gotten. News Flash: the watered down product they have now is not going to cut it, and if GM continue to neglect Pontiac in the very near future, I'd rather see them cut the division all together. Saturn is getting the dollars and product because it is a fresh, new palate to play up new ideas. If Saturn is not a success, GM's got serious problems.

[FireFox89]

and pontiac sells more vehicles combined then buick and saturn..are you nuts i know theyre rebadges but a sell is a sell

[nsap]

Originally Posted by FireFox89

and pontiac sells more vehicles combined then buick and saturn..are you nuts i know theyre rebadges but a sell is a sell

I expect Saturn to out-sell Pontiac within the next two years.

For the record, Pontiac does not out-sell Buick and Saturn combined.

2005 Total Pontiac Sales: 437,806
2005 Buick and Saturn Sales: 495,945

The margin was even higher in 2004.

[Proetus]

Originally Posted by cfch3399

What do American's have against the aged? Nothing wrong with being old, it'll happen to us all. They too need cars, their numbers are increasing not decreasing, they have the money, and they make for satisfied customers.

As LaNeve has mentioned, over the past 20 years the number of people over 65 has increased by over 30% while Buick sales have decreased by over 60%. The hope that aging baby boomers would buy Buicks just like their fathers has not panned out.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by nsap

I actually agree with you on the suspension part. There are really two types of luxury; the new performance luxury, and just plain old-fashion luxury (Lincoln, Buick, etc

Magnaride is pretty sweet on the Lucerne. You get the ride without the float.

[Jimmy Jive]

The problem with Buick is bland styling. Give them a more "upper class, eloquent" look. With styling cues from the past. So yea, this means chrome and maybe some curves.
Also, a classy coupe, is a must. A retro inspired Riviera would hit the spot.

With Pontiac, they should scale back production and put that money into performance. A niche brand.
I can see them leaning towards that now, but the sooner the better. GTO, G8, Solstice is a start. Bring out a Firebird as their coupe, and scale back the G5 and G6. They're nice cars, and do keep the brand afloat, but shouldn't be too focaused on.

I really think using more styling cues from the past/retro looks, would make these brands again.

Buick = affordable luxary
Pontiac = perfomance


Chevrolet can be their main stream seller, and Saab and Saturn is where they can stretch their legs in design and style.