Pontiac's Uncertain Future

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

I have ZERO idea why they love Saturn so dearly.

Plenty of (non car nut) people could say "Trans Am" or "Grand Prix" if you asked what a Pontiac is.

What average person could even name one Saturn product?

You sure about that? Trans Am has been dead for years, and Grand Prix is a pretty mundane sedan, so...

[johnny smallblock]

You know why these threads go on forever? Because there's no easy answer.

You can't just kill GMC because it makes huge profits. They sell Chevy trucks but at higher prices. Plus they attract different customers. I've said this before: Denali buyers have a higher average income then Cadillac buyers. You can't count on them to go to a Chevy dealership.

Saturn isn't going anywhere. Most dealers are stand alones, and would cost GM millions, maybe billions to close them all. And after GM invested billions into it, they won't sell Saturn outright to another company.

Buick won't be closed because it is now an international brand with a lot of cache overseas. GM will just import, or make here, the same models popular in China.

Pontiac sells a lot of cars. Sure, they're mostly knock-off Chevys but they still sell them. Without Pontiac, GMC-Buick dealerships would fail all over the place. And you just can't force Saturn dealerships to merge, though you could add to the Saturn dealership base by also offering dealerships to B-G dealers. Problem there is that you'll have 2 Saturn dealerships down the road from each other.

HUMMER is going - and it should. GM just can't afford a guzzler division.

Saab is probably close behind. If GM is serious about making Buick an almost-lux division, and wants to take Pontiac a bit upmarket, then Saab is just a distraction.

The problem GM is having is in merging B-P-G. Chevy should probably ditch the BoF market and leave it to GMC. At least put Tahoe on a modified Lambda chassis and replace the TB as planned.
When Buick finally gets some quality cars on it's showroom floors its sales will rise. right now all you've got are big floaty cars and a nice, but very big, crossover.
Pontiac is the tough nut to crack. G8 is obviously good. Vibe doesn't actually fit the sporting aspirations of the brand, but sells well. G6 needs a refresh, but if Invicta is about the same size, maybe G6 can start where the Malibu SS leaves off. G5 is a stop-gap car, but what is going to fill the void? Probably nothing should. GM doesn't need a dealership overflowing with every niche filled. If there's a quality G3 (or maybe G4) then you don't need the G5. That brings us to the G3. It seems like an Astra type car would be a better fit then an Aveo. But maybe if you shoe-horn the Turbo4 into an Aveo it would make a kickass AWD entry.

I've gone on long enough.

[Bravada]

Saab is probably close behind. If GM is serious about making Buick an almost-lux division, and wants to take Pontiac a bit upmarket, then Saab is just a distraction.

GM is currently in the process of phasing out Pontiac, while Buicks are still only sold in a handful of markets and are much larger than Saabs (save for the Buick Excelle, which is by no means upmarket).

[skylark68]

Pontiac isn't going anywhere.

Only way it will is if GM goes bankrupt.

[Bravada]

Any confirmed future Pontiac product in the pipeline?

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by nsap

Saturn is the golden child at GM...the executives are convinced it is worth keeping.

Whatever those execs are smoking, pass it my way. I want to know what fog bank they are wandering around in.

Originally Posted by nikivee

You need to go back to basic business 101. Pontiac outsells Saturn and Buick almost 2 to one, and you think Pontiac will get cut? Oh, yeah, that makes perfect basic business sense.

What makes perfect business sense has never stopped GM from making the dumbest decisions in history.

[jaywestfall]

Originally Posted by Gm786

The Pontiac division needs to be GM's pure performance division and if I recall properly, I remember Lutz stating that a while back. GM's going to have to find a way to make this RWD tranformation happen for Pontiac but at the same time complying with the new CAFE standards.

This should be posted in every cubicle in the Pontiac division as a mission statement.

[GMfan1111]

Originally Posted by steined

Where is my damn G8 Sport Wagon already? V8 and 6L80 thank you very much. Oh and LSD and a hitch please. I mean seriously. How many out there drive SUVs because we have to tow and would rather drive something like the G8 in wagon format?

You said it I doubt every SUV buyer buys one for towing and cargo hauling. More likely than not the majority of SUV buyers are either soccer moms who want a vehicle to take there kids (and their stuff) to soccer practice and would stick there noses up at a minivan or CUV or folks that can afford to fill it up. I personally like GM's recent wagon entries like the upcoming CTS wagon for example and they are much more fun to drive than a SUV.

Trust me, When I have to drive My moms Suburban once in awhile I resent every moment of it It's like driving a school bus. It's slow like one, It brakes like one and the steering is so over boosted and vauge that it feels like I'm steering a bus as well sometimes.

[Ed Arcuri]

Regarding GM's brand strategy:
mgescuro has it exactly correct.
If GM cuts another brand it will be more fodder for the crepe hangers in the media.
Cheers,
Ed

[PontiacBixler]

Originally Posted by ConcordeNick

If Pontiac goes, your typical Pontiac buyer will look elsewhere and not at GM. Chevy and Saturn may get a few people having a look or buying but I do believe they will end up in a foreign brand dealership instead.

If anyone from GM reads this, please do not kill this brand. If you need to do anything, get rid of all those SUV's and maybe trim some model overlap.

Nick

That is so true. I have already started looking at VW, Acura and Nissan for when our G6 lease runs up.

Because of gas prices, the only Chevy we have thought about is the Volt but there isn't any other Chevy that "sparks" our interest (no pun was really intended initially).

I am so disappointed in Pontiac over the last couple of years and am extremely fearful of the future, especially when NSAP is down on them.

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by djo165

That pretty much matches my thinking and what I wrote a couple of months ago.
UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

The drawback with this plan is do you want to replace those fleet sales, and if so, with what? Do all those fleets then go to Chevy? Some will, I'm sure, but then do you want Chevy to have to deal with an increased fleet stigma?

Good point about the fleet sales. As someone else also wrote here, merging Saturn into BPG with or without Pontiac also could be detremental to Saturn. This is because it Saturn will loose its view as seperate from GM for the consumer, would (I assume) have to give up haggle free pricing and would probably get a hit in their excellent customer service.

I didn't think of what I wrote earlier as a plan I really endorse, just what I think GM might have to do.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by pontiaccrest

If GM drops Pontiac,then I'll drop GM.

Me too. I am considering a Fusion or Focus if that happens.

The Pontiacs will both have to die first though, and that could take a very long time.

GM will have made an enemy, and I would do what I could to convince others to buy Ford, Chrysler or even Japanese before supporting a Pontiac-less GM.

[buildacariwant]

how did this turn into another which division to kill thread...i thought it was supposed to be about pontiac?

at this point GM cant save all these divisions and stay in business. and GM cant sell all brands under one roof. once you put all the divisions into a one stop shopping supercenter then there is no more brand equity or identity. and once the value each had is completely destroyed, GM goes under.

Think of it this way....somebody decides to combine mcdonalds wendys and burger king in one restaurant so all three can use the same buns, ketchup, soda, napkins, etc to save money and make a profit. and its a great idea and the customers wont mind. will they? wont all the food be different even though it came from the same kitchen?

so the menu has 3 versions of single patty burgers, chicken nuggets, fries, practically everything else too, but with a good tv ad we can convince everyone a mcnugget is different then the other 2 brands of nugget even though we started with the same chicken and fried them in the same grease.

the poor cashier is frustrated and wants to quit from spending most of his day trying to explain to 90% of the hungry lunch crowd that the whopper is basically the same thing as a 1/4 pounder except its $1.00 more and it has lettuce.

And yes they have the same bun, pickles, ketchup, and meat patty, and were cooked on the same grill....BUT THAT LETTUCE....omg its a totally different burger now. or look, we can make the meat square and now its a wendy's burger....just like before we combined stores.

the store owner knows this is stupid and says why cant we just sell and market one burger. but the franchise doesnt want to cut the whopper and just make lettuce an option on the 1/4 pounder because the people who eat the whopper will be mad and walk out and the 1/4 pounder guys will be mad that you can now add lettuce if you pay for it and it never had it before. and i mean adding lettuce ruins it right?

add that to the fact the restaurant next door was a stand alone burger king but now has all 3 inside too.

its ridiculous way to run a business and it wont work for GM either.

GM is losing billions and needs to cut the fat, sentiments need to be put to the side, and yea some customers will leave. but has to be done. i used to say all the divisions had a market but not anymore. goodbye pontiac saturn saab hummer gmc and maybe buick.

wouldnt you rather drive a chevelle or impala GM could commit to 110% then a 85% G8?

[Orbit Orange]

wouldnt you rather drive a chevelle or impala GM could commit to 110% then a 85% G8?

In all honesty, NO.

[1957wildcat]

Originally Posted by buildacariwant

wouldnt you rather drive a chevelle or impala GM could commit to 110% then a 85% G8?

Nope. I'd much rather have a Pontiac G8 than the others you mentioned. Keep Pontiac and Buick - without them, GM isn't GM.