Pontiac's Uncertain Future

[WishIhadatruck]

My last 2 cars (counting my current one) have been Pontiac GP's. Unfortunately right now they don't have anything that excites me at all. I'd love a G8 but unless it has a small diesel in it I can't really justify buying another gas hog. The V6 model would use more gas than my current GP and I want better fuel efficiency not worse. The current Epsilon cars are just too narrow so the G6 doesn't really work. Maybe the next generation will gain a little width. They way it is now I won't really miss Pontiac since I don't plan to buy one but I still hate to see them go.

[nikivee]

Originally Posted by nsap

Astra---Astra (EXACTLY the same)
Aura---Vectra (kinda)
Vue---Antara (EXACTLY the same)
Sky---Opel GT (EXACTLY the same)

More than just two models.

Keep in mind that Pontiac gone would mean an open slot for Saturn in the Buick-GMC dealership network. Saturn is the golden child at GM...the executives are convinced it is worth keeping.

And that's the kind of logic that will in the end destroy GM. Wilth Pontiac outselling Saturn every month that would make no sense whatsoever. Saturn has a whole new lineup and sales are still in the tank. If anyone at GM had any actual common sense Saturn would be on the chopping block.

[Hoboken Tim]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

I don't suppose that anyone noted that when Oldsmobile was murdered, the people that bought them went to other makes, mostly Imports. They did NOT for the most part buy Buicks.

Ignore the lessons of history at one's own peril.

Exactly, but better to kill it than make it a badge egineered chevy. Much better to make it a badge engineered RWD holden, which would save GM money and give us a real pontiac.

[ChevyRules]

The Alpha Pontiac was dead even before GM talking about killing a brand. Alpha is under Cadillac and GM Europe control effectively making it too expensive for Pontiac's use.

Originally Posted by nsap

I believe 2011-ish for the Caddy. GM took development of Alpha away from Holden and gave it to GM North American and GM Europe to develop. They did that so Cadillac can get everything THEY want from the platform. I've heard that GM Europe (assuming an Opel) will get some kind of Alpha product.

Any updated news on the Alpha Platform related to 1st Gen BLS or 7th Gen Grand Am?

Hopefully GM takes the G8 and turns it into a Saturn since Vauxhaull has the VXR8.

[JoeT]

Saturn should be rolled into Pontiac. That would make one great product range: Commodore, Sportwagon, Ute, Corsa, Astra, Aura, Vue, Outlook and Sky/Solstice.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

The Alpha Pontiac was dead even before GM talking about killing a brand. Alpha is under Cadillac and GM Europe control effectively making it too expensive for Pontiac's use.

why does that mean it cant happen? because its a cadillac it cant be a pontiac? that makes no sense. why cant it just be, here's the caddy version, and over here we're going to build the pontiac version. theres no increase in r&d cost right? it still makes gm money selling both.

[A Bum In A Bus]

It reports like this that kill sales, this is the last thing GM needs with sales down.

[MaxLegroom]

Originally Posted by nikivee

You need to go back to basic business 101. Pontiac outsells Saturn and Buick almost 2 to one, and you think Pontiac will get cut? Oh, yeah, that makes perfect basic business sense.

The way I'm reading this is not that nsap needs to go back to business school, but perhaps GM management does. He's given some of the plausible reasons, mentioned what is going on, and left it for you to draw your own conclusion.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by chakis24

why does that mean it cant happen? because its a cadillac it cant be a pontiac? that makes no sense. why cant it just be, here's the caddy version, and over here we're going to build the pontiac version. theres no increase in r&d cost right? it still makes gm money selling both.

Then why did GM have to develop Zeta if they had Sigma? Because Sigma is too expensive! With Cadillac having development over it now, it will most likely use expensive materials and would be impossible to sell an Alpha Pontiac at $24-$26K and make a decent profit.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by chakis24

why does that mean it cant happen? because its a cadillac it cant be a pontiac? that makes no sense. why cant it just be, here's the caddy version, and over here we're going to build the pontiac version. theres no increase in r&d cost right? it still makes gm money selling both.

The cost structure would be setup for luxury vehicles (so that the platform is capable with other luxury marques); meaning that the ROI (return on investment) would be formulated on a higher MSRP than an Alpha Pontiac could ever sell for. So no, financially GM would be better off not building an Alpha Pontiac.

[FoMoCo Fan]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

I don't suppose that anyone noted that when Oldsmobile was murdered, the people that bought them went to other makes, mostly Imports. They did NOT for the most part buy Buicks.

Ignore the lessons of history at one's own peril.

They're going to other makes anyways. Look at the sales numbers!!!

[nsap]

Originally Posted by nikivee

You need to go back to basic business 101. Pontiac outsells Saturn and Buick almost 2 to one, and you think Pontiac will get cut? Oh, yeah, that makes perfect basic business sense.

Direct that statement to GM's management. 95% of my piece is fact, not my opinion.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by JoeT

Saturn should be rolled into Pontiac. That would make one great product range: Commodore, Sportwagon, Ute, Corsa, Astra, Aura, Vue, Outlook and Sky/Solstice.

Not that. Three Lambdas at one dealership? Unless they kill the Acadia and make the current Outlook the new Acadia (which it should be, looks much more truck-like than the Acadia), that won't turn out too well.

[fbg6coupe]

I don't think Pontiac is in danger as its numbers are still good. As mentioned, it's outselling Saturn and Buick! Plus, it is a brand with a long history. I don't think GM ever fully recovered from the loss of Oldsmobile (which were really nice cars back in the day). I don't think they'll take another hit like that!

I do believe that Saturn can be easily cut and products rolled into Pontiac.

G6/Aura
Solstice/ Sky
The Astra
G5
G8

Why not take Pontiac global? Or why not pair it up with Opel instead of Saturn. Saturn has a poor reputation and NO history. Early models were crap. And they only have a small lineup of models anyway.

Dropping Saturn would make much better business sense. And I think of it were to cut any brand, it would be Saturn. The numbers speak for themselves.

[ConcordeNick]

Why in the world would they cut Pontiac??? I could see GMC getting the axe perhaps or even Buick. Saturn seems untouchable for some reason. Weird.

I hope they change their mind. It would be a shame to see this brand die. Much like someone on here said before, I don't think Pontiac buyers will naturally migrate over to another GM brand if Pontiac goes. If Pontiac goes, I'd consider a Saturn or Chevy but would probably go to an import of some sort instead.

Nick