Pontiac's Uncertain Future

[Millefune]

I like the Cobalt better, but my girlfriend likes the G5 better. I love the four round lights in the back, she likes the G5 tails better. We both love the red gauges, and the front nostrils look better than the Chevy grill. And... the dart is much sexier than the bowtie. The G5 has its appeal, regardless of it being a rebadge. I just wish they made a turbo version too (why I like the Cobalt better, it's faster).

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by longislander

Why is that bad ? Do you think that there is anyone who decided against buying a Solstice or a G6 or a Torrent because they were offended by the fact that Pontiac sells the G5 ? I ask again, who is hurt by this "rebadge" and why is it such a bad thing ? Enlighten me...

GM is hurt by it. They can't really charge any premium price for a Pontiac or even Buick anymore because of all the endless rebadging they've done over the years. Consumers don't see any real difference in their brands, it's all the same mush to most people. And thus their sales drop year after year as people move to brands which have identities.

And if they can't charge a premium, why even have the brand in the first place? Good question, but now they're stuck with 2500 dealer agreements and they can't get rid of it.

People here have the right idea that a huge investment would create a unique identity for Pontiac, and potentially higher-end sales. However that's also a huge risk (see Oldsmobile), so GM is doing the conservative thing and just rebadging Chevys.

[Bravada]

I just wish they made a turbo version too (why I like the Cobalt better, it's faster).

That's the ultimate insult. They didn't even bother with the turbo, which would have cost them next to nothing, or even offered an appearance package. When MG Rover had no money at all, they've created an all-new line of MG "sports cars" just by rebadging Rovers, but they did not skimp on body kits or outlandish paints to make them stand out.

Rover 25


MG ZR


Rover 45


MG ZS


Rover 75


MG ZT


Cobalt


G5

[mikmak]

Don't forget the ZT Rear wheel drive V8 version of the fwd Rover 75!

[Bravada]

In gray, it doesn't look nearly as fast as in read, yellow, green or blue



Again, if GM was serious about Pontiac, they'd at least give Pontiacs the "MG treatment" (I am not speaking of FWD-to-RWD reengineering here, though).

[Archangel]

Many people fail to even tell one from the other. Pontiac's G5 should have been a re-badged Astra, not a Cobalt.

Cobalt


G5


Two different brands, two different cars. That's how it should be. I bet sales for the Pontiac Astra would've been a lot better than the G5 sales or Saturn Astra sales. Of course, a more powerful engine would've been required. Same engine options as in the G5, with the addition of a turbocharged GXP with 275hp.

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by 1957wildcat

Nope. I'd much rather have a Pontiac G8 than the others you mentioned. Keep Pontiac and Buick - without them, GM isn't GM.

With them GM isn't a viable business.

[Bravada]

Nice chop, Archangel, and you're absolutely right. As a matter of fact, GM could've just transplanted Astra's body over Cobalt's/Ion's chassis, and even use the same interior (i.e. Cobalt's) with a different steering wheel for the US.

[96_impala_ss]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

But to kill a brand that has been around since 1928? They better really think about this...

Olds was around since 1897 and purchased by GM in 1908. Look where they ended up.

[1957wildcat]

Originally Posted by TriShield

With them GM isn't a viable business.

Pontiac and Buick are NOT what is causing GM problems in the marketplace. Moreover, any concerns that exist with Pontiac and GM were caused by GM itself.

[ehaase]

Originally Posted by 1957wildcat

Pontiac and Buick are NOT what is causing GM problems in the marketplace.

I think they are a lot of the problem. The introduction of cheaper models by luxury brands and the base brands introducing more luxury models have squeezed medium brands like Pontiac and Buick.

[Bravada]

Well, guess who was the king of introducing all models for all brands?

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by 1957wildcat

Pontiac and Buick are NOT what is causing GM problems in the marketplace. Moreover, any concerns that exist with Pontiac and GM were caused by GM itself.

I can agree w/this.
GM has mismanaged & even in some portion, mismarketed some/many of their models from their respect brands from the get go. If GM had managed & marketed their models properly, they wouldn't be in sliding as(or so) much.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Many people fail to even tell one from the other. Pontiac's G5 should have been a re-badged Astra, not a Cobalt.

G5


Two different brands, two different cars. That's how it should be. I bet sales for the Pontiac Astra would've been a lot better than the G5 sales or Saturn Astra sales. Of course, a more powerful engine would've been required. Same engine options as in the G5, with the addition of a turbocharged GXP with 275hp.

Nice 'chop

The Astra looks better and the name fits Pontiac better IMO and the next Astra should move to Pontiac as the Pontiac Astra in 3D/5D models with the 'new' Calibra Coupe joining the Twin-Top as Pontiac models replacing both the G5 and G6 coupes.

New Pontiac line

Pontiac Astra Coupe/3D/5D/HTC (DeltaII)
Pontiac Vibe
Pontiac Solstice Conv/Firebird Coupe (Alpha or C7)
Pontiac Grand Am Sedan (Epsilon Insignia)
Pontiac GTO/Grand Prix (LWB Alpha or Sigma)
Pontiac G8/ST (Zeta) - could move G8 Sedan to Buick and keep G8 ST

The Astra will sell better as a Pontiac and if GM had done this with the existing Astra the G3 would not have been needed.

GM can offer a DeltaII sedan as a Buick to compliment the Cruze.

[Thrash]

I know this is a GM column, but the problem with GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all the same. Lack of good designs and pricing. GM(America sadly except for Corvette) doesn't know how to design exteriors or interiors. They're all still using really cheap plastic for their interiors. They also have a problem with raising prices of their vehicles if they are popular. Remember the '93 Z28? It had a list price of around $13,999 or somewhere in that range. They couldn't build them fast enough. Chevrolet increased the price of those cars by over a grand every year. Popularity decreased and the line died out. That car had a lot of design issues as I found out being a previous owner. I can sit in any new vehicle and point out problems, why can't someone in design see the things I see? I also laugh at all the points about killing Pontiac. That's the only car brand in America that when you see one, you know it's one. When we see a Mercedes, we know it's a Mercedes, when we see a BMW, we know it's a BMW, and when we see a Pontiac, we know it's a Pontiac. Whether we like those cars or not is another story. We talk about the return of the Firebird or GTO, or whatever they're going to call it. Well guess what, if GM prices these cars in the $35k range, they may as well forget it because the mainstream public is not going to spend that kind of money on a car like that. Give me a V8 for $25k please if you want it to sell. Forget marketing, brand awareness, all that junk, just design the cars better and price competitively, not according to some market research. GM will start selling cars again. Done.