Pontiac's Uncertain Future

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by JoeT

No prob's mate. That's why I wrote my Pontiac, Buick & Saturn = One Amazing Brand! commentary a few months back.

Ah, excellent. I dont know if I commented in the thread or not. I will go back and re-read and post.

Thanks brother.

[Millefune]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

If GM sunk the same $18 BILLION in Pontiac that it did in Saturn then perhaps Pontiac would be outshining all expectations by now.

Regardless, its cheaper for them to close those 400+ locations than it would be for them to force other dealerships to add Saturn to their locations...

If GM sunk that money into Pontiac, they would have a customer and family purchases for life.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

If GM sunk the same $18 BILLION in Pontiac that it did in Saturn then perhaps Pontiac would be outshining all expectations by now.

They probably spent about the same money on P/B/G as a whole, if not more:
Aura = G6, new LaCrosse
Outlook = Arcadia, Enclave
Sky = Solstice
Astra = worthless

So, is PBG "exceeding expectations"? Not really.

The only real stand-out product they gave Saturn was the Vue. Everything else is just a clone of another GM model.

Also keep in mind that bragging about product spending (which they have to do anyway to stay in business) is a form of marketing. The premise of this thread is that GM did Saturn some sort of exceptional favor by giving them something to put in the showroom. They didn't even bother developing a real SL/ION replacement, so this was hardly a huge effort.

Regardless, its cheaper for them to close those 400+ locations than it would be for them to force other dealerships to add Saturn to their locations...

I'm of the opinion that GM needs to close/merge dealerships. But keep in mind that in many cases the Saturn dealer is a lot nicer than the nearby PBG dealer. If they did merge them somehow, they really should evaluate this on a market-by-market basis to determine the right number of the best locations. In some cases that might mean keeping the Saturn store open while shutting down the excess Pontiac locations.

A "on high" decision to shut down their best dealerships would be a disaster.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

They probably spent about the same money on P/B/G as a whole, if not more:
Aura = G6, new LaCrosse
Outlook = Arcadia, Enclave
Sky = Solstice
Astra = worthless

So, is PBG "exceeding expectations"? Not really.

The only real stand-out product they gave Saturn was the Vue. Everything else is just a clone of another GM model.

Also keep in mind that bragging about product spending (which they have to do anyway to stay in business) is a form of marketing. The premise of this thread is that GM did Saturn some sort of exceptional favor by giving them something to put in the showroom. They didn't even bother developing a real SL/ION replacement, so this was hardly a huge effort.



I'm of the opinion that GM needs to close/merge dealerships. But keep in mind that in many cases the Saturn dealer is a lot nicer than the nearby PBG dealer. If they did merge them somehow, they really should evaluate this on a market-by-market basis to determine the right number of the best locations. In some cases that might mean keeping the Saturn store open while shutting down the excess Pontiac locations.

A "on high" decision to shut down their best dealerships would be a disaster.

I agree on everything but the Astra being worthless. I think that with an appropriate engine and updated interior, a Pontiac Astra could be very attractive.

[marcnoel]

Always comes down to Pontiac's future. Like i said before saturn sould have benn shot down after the end of the ion an old vue cycle and Opel should have gone to the Pontiac Division(as well as Holden product).

Also Gm should have create a new GTO of Firebird insted of the Camaro. It would have help Pontiac in therm of sale volume.

If Gm keeps GMC. Give some of Opel croosover to GMC of if GMC dies gives those cars to Pontiac.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by Archangel

I agree on everything but the Astra being worthless. I think that with an appropriate engine and updated interior, a Pontiac Astra could be very attractive.

Not that the car itself is worthless, just that GM invested very little money into this. Given the price and lack of advertising, I doubt the car would do any better at Pontiac.

[LeSabre]

At least a Pontiac Astra wouldn't be a blatant rebadge of a Cobalt. They would be completely different. This is the differentation GM needs to do throughout teh company. From one brand to another. Have no 2 cars to look so similar. They would mainly share the platform they are both built on & perhaps same engines too.
The G5 as it is, IS worthless! Let alone the name, G5.


.

[Millefune]

I test drove an Astra today. Wow! If I wasn't a staunch Pontiac supporter over Saturn (I don't want to help keep Saturn alive, because it hurts Pontiac), I'd look into it more. It is a good car, but I won't get one if it doesn't have a red dart on it.

[LeSabre]

I like the Astra 3dr. The 5dr doesn't appeal to me. I like the shape of the 3dr better, the 5dr looks like a VW Golf/Rabbit, which I suppose was deliberate.
But the center stack in the Astra is hideous. It'd be a deal breaker for me.

[Millefune]

You're right. I don't like how the center stack looks either, but the drive was very good.

[AMcA]

Unplug Pontiac. Make the Solstice into a junior Corvette, leverage a great name. Kill the Vibe outright. Make the G8 into the Impala. The G6 drop-top becomes a Malibu convertible. Maybe, the G6 coupe becomes a Chevy coupe. And the sedan just plain goes away. (Oh, yeah: the G5. I don't need to explain what to do with that sad little car.)

That, and a billion dollars to pay off the dealers is all it would take.

[longislander]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

At least a Pontiac Astra wouldn't be a blatant rebadge of a Cobalt. They would be completely different. This is the differentation GM needs to do throughout teh company. From one brand to another. Have no 2 cars to look so similar. They would mainly share the platform they are both built on & perhaps same engines too.
The G5 as it is, IS worthless! Let alone the name, G5.


.

Have you driven a G5 ? It's comfortable, quiet, reasonably priced, good-looking, and offers a sporty entry-level coupe for Pontiac...worthless ? I don't think so...

[longislander]

Originally Posted by AMcA

(Oh, yeah: the G5. I don't need to explain what to do with that sad little car.)

What to do with it ? Advertise it...then see how well it will sell !! Test drive it and you'll see that it's far from sad. I strongly suspect that those who bash the G5 have never driven one.

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by longislander

Have you driven a G5? It's comfortable, quiet, reasonably priced, good-looking, and offers a sporty entry-level coupe for Pontiac...worthless? I don't think so...

No.

Not at all. Its a blatant rebadge & shouldn't be at all. It should not look like the Cobalt at all! The Sunfire looked much better, esp. in coupe form.

Absolutely!

[longislander]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

No.

Not at all. Its a blatant rebadge & shouldn't be at all. It should not look like the Cobalt at all! The Sunfire looked much better, esp. in coupe form.

Absolutely!

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how well it rides/drives/handles.
Styling is subjective of course but I find the lines simple and attractive, much cleaner than the bulbous Sunfire.
I bought my son a brand new G5 as his first car. I was glad that GM offered a compact coupe as a Cobalt alternative, as I'm just not a Chevy guy. The few styling changes as well as the Pontiac nameplate made it more appealing to me.
Why is that bad ? Do you think that there is anyone who decided against buying a Solstice or a G6 or a Torrent because they were offended by the fact that Pontiac sells the G5 ? I ask again, who is hurt by this "rebadge" and why is it such a bad thing ? Enlighten me...