Pontiac Needs to Close

[Dennis214]

I have sold Cadillac, Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn. Fact of the matter is, Pontiac is already dead, truly, no one cares. The Pontiac Store I was at was dualled with Saturn, Month after month, Saturn crushed Pontiac. Vue beat Torrent, Aura beat G6, Sky beat Solstice and Grand Prixs rotted on the lot.

Saturn does one thing no other GM brand has done in a long time, Get consideration from the same people who drive imports. GM needs to get the Saturn lineup and message figured out, and the best we can say about that is that it is a work in progress, and then expand the dealer base. Yeah, Saturn only sold 7700 units last month, with fewer than 450 outlets.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by Tony's BlkGTP

I'm hoping and praying that the G8 will expand to a 2 door version because I really don't like 4 doors.

Go and check one out sometime, I sat in one, revved it up (GT version ) and I am seriously in love, it was very comfortable, sounded great, looked great, and it was everything that a Pontiac should be. I drive a 2002 GP GT coupe and I would go with the sedan no questions asked. But then again, you aren't me, but you should still see how practical it really is.

[longislander]

I will repeat what's been said many times here already, as a buyer I just don't want a Chevy. My current "fleet" includes an '02 Bonneville, '07 G5 (GREAT car, btw, never understood all the hating), and '07 Solstice. My plan is to replace that Bonneville with a G8 next year.
I have a great relationship with my Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer and have sent them at least 6 new customers over the years. The G6 especially is a great car to be able to recommend, at the price it just sells itself once someone is given the suggestion to take a look at it.
GM simply can't afford to risk losing loyal customers like myself and many others similarly inclined.

[vcs2600]

I'll just add that Pontiac is NOT a performance brand. Nobody thinks that except old-timers and mulletoids.

Pontiac sells mainly to younger female customers - G6, Vibe, Torrent. If you get rid of these core products, you don't have a brand anymore.

I think if Pontiac is to survive it actually should be positioned as a low-end economy brand below Chevrolet. Products like the Beat and Aveo can be badged as Pontiac in order to preserve Chevy's all-american reputation.

[GMusa]

Close Pontiac! Are you kidding me?!?! I really have no comment because thats one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time!

[dav305z]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

I'll just add that Pontiac is NOT a performance brand. Nobody thinks that except old-timers and mulletoids.

Pontiac sells mainly to younger female customers - G6, Vibe, Torrent. If you get rid of these core products, you don't have a brand anymore.

I think if Pontiac is to survive it actually should be positioned as a low-end economy brand below Chevrolet. Products like the Beat and Aveo can be badged as Pontiac in order to preserve Chevy's all-american reputation.

You can't merely judge a brand by the products it currently has in its showroom. Two years ago Saturn was a cheapo brand that made plastic-bodied wannabe Korean cars. What makes a brand valuable is not the products you give it, but that brand's potential to augment good product.

Pontiac still has the recognition and association to sell affordable performance cars. By performance cars, I don't mean BMW's, I mean Nissans and Mazda's. It's a sizable piece of the market that will get larger, not smaller, as people continue to migrate from SUV's.

[GMusa]

If anything... GMC can go because it has no vehicles of its own. Keep the trucks with Chevy and Cadillac with the Escalade. HUMMER can go - we all know why - but it would be cool if HUMMER could be saved with smaller vehicles like Jeep. And I think Saturn should go. We have Chevy with core products - no need for Saturn. Pontiac needs to stay.. there is alot GM can do with Pontiac! The G8, Solstice are awesome! And with a new/better looking and better performing G6, Pontiac would do very well! Along with getting a new G5 once the new Cobalt comes out. Buick needs to stay too! I think with its upcoming vehicles it would be a great lexus/Lincoln fighter! And no one cars about Saab - the Sweds' can take Saab back. But GM should make more vehicles with Saabs XWD system(like a Pontiac badged Evo and STi fighter!!!!!!) Cadillac needs to stay... its a great M-Benz/BMW fighter!

[pic18]

Pontiac has the potential to be a huge sales success, and regain it's performance image. All it needs is a couple small sporty cars. It doesn't need a rebadged Aveo.

Give it something to compete with Mazda and Scions, and watch the youth grab onto it.

[Fusion2.3H]

Creating the New Pontiac Lineup PART 2 of Series
By: Fusion2.3h

When making any strategic decision on future vehicles for a marquee it is important to consider the development time involved. While many auto manufacturers claim a 24 month development time, this normally precludes 1-2 years of research and development (R&D) into the areas of marketing, preliminary engineering, and other areas. Hence, this evaluation should not be viewed as a sole strategy for Pontiac, but as a starting point for the future of Pontiac’s lineup through the 2012-2015 Model Year (MY’), being that the current product life cycle is locked in.

The Pontiac G6 (Grand Am)

For most brands one to two vehicles comprise the majority of brands sales. One often used example by product planners is the Civic and Accord which comprise over 50% of their yearly sales. In the Pontiac lineup the G6 comprises nearly 50% of it’s overall sales. Going into the next product life cycle, it will be important to build upon this foundation; these vehicles often act as an entrance for customers to the brand experience and lead them into purchasing other brand nameplates.

Traditionally, platforms were technically difficult to re-engineer to create a distinguishable vehicle. With advances in platform design and the movement of vehicle design to computer, designers have been able to improve differentiation of vehicles to the point that a Honda Odyssey and Ridgeline share no visible similarities. General Motors has also developed this technology and is able to create two separate vehicles on the same platform, greatly reducing development costs. Without having to support the Hummer and GMC brands, GM is freed into funneling money into creating a unique Pontiac G6.

In six to seven years customer’s who are purchasing a Malibu will be looking at Camrys, Accords, and Sonatas. This leaves open the Altima, Mazda6, and Legacy market in the United States and C4 in Europe, with the Aura competing against the Passat and future entrants such as Alfa Romeo. The new G6 will offer AWD and Front-wheel drive versions with the AWD systems being able to communicate over 50% of engine power to any wheel. Higher end versions of the G6 will include magnetic ride control such as the CTS-V as an option package that includes wider tires.

Technically, the G6 will offer a turning circle and steering wheel turns-to-lock below competitors. From a drivers perspective this will provide under steer through sharp turns and with the magnetic ride control it will communicate road feedback to make the driver feel they are one with the road. Combined with the Pontiac’s unique AWD system and it will be fun to drive in the Mountains on the weekend, yet with the Magnetic Ride control it will be able to be driven during commutes.

The G6 will remain available in Sedan, Coupe, Cabriolet, and will see the introduction of a Wagon for customers that need more room without sacrificing fuel economy, though further market reserach would be needed to determine demand for a Wagon in the U.S. light-vehicle market.

Competitors

2009 Mazda6

2008 Citroen C4 Coupe


2008 Subaru Legacy


2008 Nissan Altima

Design Inspiration

2009 Pontiac G8 GXP

Although the design of the current G8 is uniquely Pontiac, the design can be improved upon to provide a more in your face look compared to an understated Altima, Mazda6, or Legacy. Customers looking for something unique that they can count on can trust on the Pontiac G6

Stay tuned to the next part of the Series….Pontiac G5

[zete]

I still think the only way for Pontiac to survive is if its part of an import badged brand with Saturn and Saab, with Pontiac being Holden. It doesn't matter if the exchange sucks as the goal is to augment the factory production with amazing cars. Bring over truly great RWD sedans and coupes, mixed in with the Solstice -- the Sky should be a Chevy -- and focus on niche sales to those who want an import.

Trying to create Pontiac versions of given cars is a losing matter. Having a Firebird and a Camaro, for example, just isn't something that can or should be done. But you can still have a differentiated Pontiac by saying they're imported Holdens. No need to redo the cars at all, just focus on well executed performance. By having them linked totally to Holden and their sales in Europe and Asia GM can move a reasonable amount each year. And they won't cannibalize sales from Chevrolet.

[DonDono63]

I really enjoy my 06 Pontiac GTO and hope to pick up one of those Holden Utes someday as a Pontiac. Pontiac is on the right track but USA INC. needs a break from the high price of gas or we won't be just worrying about Pontiac closing.

Don

[uvaeeman]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Pontiac Needs to Close
... another commentary by mgescuro ...

Sorry.
There is nothing more the brand can do.

What is Pontiac these days? G8, G6, G5, Grand Prix, Torrent, Vibe, Solstice,
Of all those, the only 2 worth mentioning is the G8 and Solstice.

G6 has become the fleet queen.
Grand Prix is puzzlingly still alive.
Torrent is a straight rebadged.
G5 is a straight rebadge.
Wave/G4 (or G3) will be a straight rebadged.
The above 5 have no business being in a brand for so-called “performance” cars.

And there is nothing at Pontiac that can’t be sold as a Chevrolet or badged as an SS.

The G8 family can easily live its life as the Chevy Impala (sedan), Chevy Nomad (wagon), and Chevy El Camino (truck thingy).
And Chevy Solstice has a nice ring to it.
Chevy Vibe would also be a nice addition as well.

Pontiac has limited global presence as it is, though it does fairly well in Canada. There’s no reason why Chevy can’t take it over in the marketplace.

I see no credible reason for Pontiac to soldier on.

Pontiac may be a brand with 2 "real" cars and some rebadges, but 95% of the time I prefer the look of the Pontiac looks-tweak to the original Chevy. I know that being a Pontiac fan for looks puts me in the minority, but I'm not alone.

I still think the only way for Pontiac to survive is if its part of an import badged brand with Saturn and Saab, with Pontiac being Holden. It doesn't matter if the exchange sucks as the goal is to augment the factory production with amazing cars. Bring over truly great RWD sedans and coupes, mixed in with the Solstice -- the Sky should be a Chevy -- and focus on niche sales to those who want an import.

Trying to create Pontiac versions of given cars is a losing matter. Having a Firebird and a Camaro, for example, just isn't something that can or should be done. But you can still have a differentiated Pontiac by saying they're imported Holdens. No need to redo the cars at all, just focus on well executed performance. By having them linked totally to Holden and their sales in Europe and Asia GM can move a reasonable amount each year. And they won't cannibalize sales from Chevrolet.

I think a viable Pontiac future is a brand twin/partner with Holden. But Pontiac was and could still be a volume brand. People are much more likely I think to cross shop Pontiac than, say, Saturn. Holden would need to be able to keep up with significant volume on mainstream models.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by zete

I still think the only way for Pontiac to survive is if its part of an import badged brand with Saturn and Saab, with Pontiac being Holden. It doesn't matter if the exchange sucks as the goal is to augment the factory production with amazing cars. Bring over truly great RWD sedans and coupes, mixed in with the Solstice -- the Sky should be a Chevy -- and focus on niche sales to those who want an import.

How??
You want a Pontiac Captiva? Pontiac Rodeo? Pontiac Barina?
What you want to say is "Pontiac needs Zeta."

But Zeta simply isn't enough, is it? That's not enough to make the dealership base happy because it only caters to a small amount of people.

Pontiac G6 -- the fleet queen.
Pontiac G5 -- the ultimate rebadge
Pontiac Torrent -- an answer to a question no one asked
ETC

We can desire performance RWD cars -- coupes, sedans, and roadsters. And for a time, GM led us to believe that THIS was the direction they were going to take Pontiac.

Then the crap cars reared its ugly head. Now Pontiac Wave is coming?
It's obvious you can't trust GM to do what is necessary to support Pontiac as the performance brand.

What you're essentially stuck with is G8 and Solstice. And that's not enough.

The key to creating the BPG channel was to give dealerships sufficient products while Buick, Pontiac, and GMC were downsized. But downsizing isn't happening is it?

There's inconsistency here.

if GM can't figure out how to keep Pontiac the performance brand, then it needs to be shut down.

[uvaeeman]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

How??
You want a Pontiac Captiva? Pontiac Rodeo? Pontiac Barina?
What you want to say is "Pontiac needs Zeta."

But Zeta simply isn't enough, is it? That's not enough to make the dealership base happy because it only caters to a small amount of people.

Pontiac G6 -- the fleet queen.
Pontiac G5 -- the ultimate rebadge
Pontiac Torrent -- an answer to a question no one asked
ETC

We can desire performance RWD cars -- coupes, sedans, and roadsters. And for a time, GM led us to believe that THIS was the direction they were going to take Pontiac.

Then the crap cars reared its ugly head. Now Pontiac Wave is coming?
It's obvious you can't trust GM to do what is necessary to support Pontiac as the performance brand.

What you're essentially stuck with is G8 and Solstice. And that's not enough.

The key to creating the BPG channel was to give dealerships sufficient products while Buick, Pontiac, and GMC were downsized. But downsizing isn't happening is it?

There's inconsistency here.

if GM can't figure out how to keep Pontiac the performance brand, then it needs to be shut down.

Given Pontiac's last 20 years.... is it really about performance or is it more about an alternative style to Chevy plus a couple performance models?

[dindak]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Pontiac Needs to Close
... another commentary by mgescuro ...

Sorry.
There is nothing more the brand can do.

What is Pontiac these days? G8, G6, G5, Grand Prix, Torrent, Vibe, Solstice,
Of all those, the only 2 worth mentioning is the G8 and Solstice.

G6 has become the fleet queen.
Grand Prix is puzzlingly still alive.
Torrent is a straight rebadged.
G5 is a straight rebadge.
Wave/G4 (or G3) will be a straight rebadged.
The above 5 have no business being in a brand for so-called “performance” cars.

And there is nothing at Pontiac that can’t be sold as a Chevrolet or badged as an SS.

The G8 family can easily live its life as the Chevy Impala (sedan), Chevy Nomad (wagon), and Chevy El Camino (truck thingy).
And Chevy Solstice has a nice ring to it.
Chevy Vibe would also be a nice addition as well.

Pontiac has limited global presence as it is, though it does fairly well in Canada. There’s no reason why Chevy can’t take it over in the marketplace.

I see no credible reason for Pontiac to soldier on.

Kill Pontiac, kill 3-4 more points of market share. Great plan!