Pontiac Needs to Close

[kenman923]

I hate to say it, but instead of Pontiac being killed, I think Saturn needs to go. Their uniqueness is gone and they have just become another GM brand. You still can't haggle on their cars. I can honestly say that I bought my last Saturn.

[Flyingbunnys]

Pontiac doesn't need to die but it doesn't need a full line up. G8 and Solstice are a good add one more a sporty Turbo 4 door and your done. Or just leave it at two models. Its cheap you don't really have to advertise them because its small and it reduces costs.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

You know what could turn Pontiac around? One of these. Except this time make it smaller and more sporty.

I've always wanted a sort of RWD Celica. Stylish, fun to drive, efficient, and inexpensive. I just look at the new Camaro and think... there's no way kids are going to get into this. Especially considering it will probably be well over 20k.







....

Anyways. As long as you have a solid line up is only takes ONE hit product to turn things around. Motorola did it with the Razr, Nintendo did it with the Wii, Toyota did it with the Prius... although that acted more as a ridiculous boost to already good sales.

[TaHoE]

Originally Posted by Bravada

5. Pontiac has a lot of brand recognition in both North America and beyond - that's equity one cannot ignore.

Ummmm...where?

[benroethig]

I would guess the great (red and) white North might sort of be considered beyond.

[I-Love-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by TaHoE

Ummmm...where?

I've noticed a lot of the Firebird videos on youtube are from Europeans. Especially the 3rd gen it seems.

[TJ95GAGT]

I'm not sure which brand to close, if any, but whatever they decide they aren't going to please all. Sure Pontiac and GMC are for the most part rebadges, but together they form a whole lot of sales. G6 may be a fleet queen, take away the G6, what goes to fleets? I can't imagine GM abandoning fleets and do they want their bread and butter family sedan Malibu taking up the slack? Owners could thank GM for their continued crappy resale if they do that.

When GM closed Oldsmobile, is there hard statistics that prove their sales went to other GM brands? There are people who don't know the G6 is an Aura which is a Malibu. My mom had no idea all these years of driving her Astro van that there was a Safari made by GMC.

If Saturn should/can basically exist as Opel in NA, why can't Pontiac basically exist as Holden in NA?

[Maki]

I don't understand all this talk about shutting down brands. It seem that a lot of people think it's a good idea to cut down GM into two brands (Chevy & Cadillac). There is a reason GM ended up with so much brands in the first place,and it was to fill every niche in the market. You need a mainstream brand , sporty brand, upscale brand, luxury brand & maybe a truck/offroad brand. Beyond this every other brand is redundant,but you can't just go shutting down divisions because you have to buy out the dealers. I understand it took 1 billion to shut down Oldsmobile,and the only thing GM gained from that was a loss of loyal customers,while Saturn took it's place,so they still ended up with an extra redundant brand.
Now some of you are advocating shutting down Pontiac so Chevy could get more attention. First of all there is a market for affordable performance cars that will appeal to young people,and thats what Pontiac's mission should be,a young man's car. Other multi-brand manufactures recognize this need for a separate sporty brand. Fiat has Alfa Romeo (which is Europe's equivalent to Pontiac),and VW has Seat (which was a redundant brand but VW gave it a specific misson to attract young buyers who like flashy sporty & affordable cars). Everybody is talking about how CAFE will hurt this cause but that is ridiculous. Performance doesn't just mean high horsepower,there are many factors to higher performance such as stiffer suspension,better aerodynamics, different gearing ...etc. Add aggressive styling and PROPER marketing ('Pontiac is Car' is the stupidest slogan I have ever heard),and the brand would make a comeback. So instead of spending a couple of billion dollars to shut down the brand,GM could revitalize Pontiac and maybe make a profit. Or it could take a defeatist position and end the brand. Just imagine if GM did that the last time Pontiac was considered a dead brand. There wouldn't have been a Trans Am, GTO and all the other icons that made this brand great

And one more thing. Chevy & Cadillac alone would not be such a great idea even if GM was able to painlessly shed its brands. Chevy would have to go upscale while Cadillac would have to go downscale to satisfy all the needs the market dictates. If we were to compare that to some other auto manufactures you would see that wouldn't work. VW tried to go upscale and failed and alienated it's core buyers that wanted a reliable affordable car. Mercedes went downscale and tarnished it's image trying to compete in the small car market,while it's core buyers wanted exclusive luxury cars. Same goes for Jaguar,who alienated it's base buyers by downscaling. What I'm trying to say is there is a need for more brands

[tgagneguam]

How odd that this qualifies as frontpage news. There's no data, there's no news, it's just a few sentences haphazardly thrown together with some opinion for good measure. Nothing in the introduction adds anything to what hasn't already been mentioned in countless other threads that more informatively addressed the topic recently.

Slow news weekend, perhaps?

[Ambalanche]

Wow, somethings wrong, I've agreed with you on 2 out of three threads this morning!
I have to agree here also. Pontiac could have been saved, if they had reinvented it along the lines of the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline scale with Turbo 4 cyls and even 6's. Sounds like heresy but Rice out Pontiac.
As it stands Chevrolet has more of a performance image than Pontiac with the 'Vette, soon Camaro and the SS versions of many vehicles. Plus Chevy's actually have a name people are willing to associate with. I agree that GM can spend the money makeing Chevy better than wasting it on Pontiac AND GMC. They will loose some Volume from those two, but if they don't make money, the volume is wasted anyway.
If Toyota can be as large and successful in the US with only three Channels then why keep underperforming brands around? Heritage and Nostalgia are one thing, I hate GM is in the situation they are in, but some hard choices are going to have to be made going forward unfortunately.

One thing, Give the next version of the Sky to Chevy and the Solstice to Saturn, the Sky looks more like a mini-Vette anyway!

[Ambalanche]

Originally Posted by Maki

I don't understand all this talk about shutting down brands. It seem that a lot of people think it's a good idea to cut down GM into two brands (Chevy & Cadillac). There is a reason GM ended up with so much brands in the first place,and it was to fill every niche in the market. You need a mainstream brand , sporty brand, upscale brand, luxury brand & maybe a truck/offroad brand. Beyond this every other brand is redundant,but you can't just go shutting down divisions because you have to buy out the dealers. I understand it took 1 billion to shut down Oldsmobile,and the only thing GM gained from that was a loss of loyal customers,while Saturn took it's place,so they still ended up with an extra redundant brand.
Now some of you are advocating shutting down Pontiac so Chevy could get more attention. First of all there is a market for affordable performance cars that will appeal to young people,and thats what Pontiac's mission should be,a young man's car. Other multi-brand manufactures recognize this need for a separate sporty brand. Fiat has Alfa Romeo (which is Europe's equivalent to Pontiac),and VW has Seat (which was a redundant brand but VW gave it a specific misson to attract young buyers who like flashy sporty & affordable cars). Everybody is talking about how CAFE will hurt this cause but that is ridiculous. Performance doesn't just mean high horsepower,there are many factors to higher performance such as stiffer suspension,better aerodynamics, different gearing ...etc. Add aggressive styling and PROPER marketing ('Pontiac is Car' is the stupidest slogan I have ever heard),and the brand would make a comeback. So instead of spending a couple of billion dollars to shut down the brand,GM could revitalize Pontiac and maybe make a profit. Or it could take a defeatist position and end the brand. Just imagine if GM did that the last time Pontiac was considered a dead brand. There wouldn't have been a Trans Am, GTO and all the other icons that made this brand great

And one more thing. Chevy & Cadillac alone would not be such a great idea even if GM was able to painlessly shed its brands. Chevy would have to go upscale while Cadillac would have to go downscale to satisfy all the needs the market dictates. If we were to compare that to some other auto manufactures you would see that wouldn't work. VW tried to go upscale and failed and alienated it's core buyers that wanted a reliable affordable car. Mercedes went downscale and tarnished it's image trying to compete in the small car market,while it's core buyers wanted exclusive luxury cars. Same goes for Jaguar,who alienated it's base buyers by downscaling. What I'm trying to say is there is a need for more brands

I agree with your first part about what GM should have done with Pontiac, but they haven't and I don't see where they will. Pontiac doesn't need the Wave (hell, I hate Chevy has it, it's not competitive), the G6 is not a sporty car, nor the Grand Prix anymore, it's only around for rental cars, the Torrent? Torrentially boring, the Solstice and G8 are the only "true Pontiacs" in my way of thinking and who knows what is going to happen with the G8 with gas the way it is. Im thinking the media is going to cast the V8 like Hummer!

[vam29]

Add the Holden wagon and Ute with Quad 4's, re-vised G6 sedan, cpe and conv, plus retain the new Torrent wgn slated for GMC, then Pontiac, Chev,Cad and Buick will be big winners and should bring GM back from the brink within a manageable cost structure. GM will also look good to Wall St which it now needs more than ever to help provide the capital it needs to succeed. GM's market share, I believe, will be back near 30% by 2015 by keeping only BCCP. The product line-up will fall into place alot faster than most people would expect it to. With the added benefits of putting BCCP under one roof with new facilities positive results may be achieved even faster.

[01sunfire01]

if gm stops makeing pontiac then im going to go to saab. if i cant afford a saab im leaveing gm all together. pontiac with the little things difforent from chevy make a big difforence. thats why i picked the G5 over the cobalt. you see alot more pontiacs on the road then you see GMC and saturn put together. if any brand should go it should be saturn or gmc. not pontiac. they needed to update pontiac befor they did saturn. pontiac have alot more brand loyal then saturn does so if they take out pontiac they will lose alot of people.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by goblue

In order to save Pontiac, GM would have to commit to fully leveraging Holden across the board, and unfortunately the exchange rate isn't there. So - they'd have to close Australian plants and move work to the US. but even then, shipping costs are so high now it still might not make a profit.

Holden's only unique product is the Commodore. Everything else is an Opel or Daewoo, which is why Pontiac = Holden is not the same as Saturn = Opel.

[Ming]

Sad but true.

It makes it worse when/if you consider that Holden sells Chevrolet badged cars like the Lumina, etc. already. While I was a huge Pontiac fan, I find my enthusiasm for the brand has waned over time, and not because of the Holdens. It's been "total performance" cars like the old 3.4L powered Torrent, re-grilles like the G5, and the Toyota Vibe that have sapped my desire to support the brand further.

The cool Holdens could go to Chevrolet tomorrow (and El Camino would ride again), and even the Solstice could have a reworked grille to look like a little Stingray.

Like GMC, Pontiac serves little purpose now (a brand can't survive on a handful of cool niche cars), and the more I see management musical chairs at GM, the more I think that there will never be a manager who is truly committed to making Pontiac a fantastic brand of its own that doesn't rely on Chevy sharing and other rebadges and reskins for so much of its lineup.

The final nail in Pontiac's coffin is the need for much better fuel economy, which is sure to lead to more Daewoo LeMans type cars (to balance off the big Holdens) that while a fan of quirky GM small cars like me might enjoy, destroy Pontiac's brand image.