Pontiac Needs to Close

[jgill16]

Yeah But People Are Buying Scions. The College I Attend, The Car Ports Was Full Of Scion Tc And Xb I Was Like Who In The Hell Owns These Cars. Young Teenager That Momy And Daddy Bought. I Was The Only Person There That Drove A Cadillac Sts Along Side Of Other Cars Bmw, Mercedes,lexus,audi That Too Were In That Car Port Sudents Were Driving. And This My Friend Was Not University This School Was A Jc. So My Point Is That Scion Is Still Selling Even If Is A P O S To Some People.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jgill16

Yeah But People Are Buying Scions. The College I Attend, The Car Ports Was Full Of Scion Tc And Xb I Was Like Who In The Hell Owns These Cars. Young Teenager That Momy And Daddy Bought. I Was The Only Person There That Drove A Cadillac Sts Along Side Of Other Cars Bmw, Mercedes,lexus,audi That Too Were In That Car Port Sudents Were Driving. And This My Friend Was Not University This School Was A Jc. So My Point Is That Scion Is Still Selling Even If Is A P O S To Some People.

Ask yourself a question...

Are these Scions being bought because they're cool and stylish?
Or are they being bought because they're cheap?
Once these people graduate from college.... do they want to keep the Scion? Does owning a Scion make them want to "graduate" to a Toyota?

Pontiac still sells, even if they're all POS's too. but that doesn't help Pontiac's reputation... nor does it help GM's reputation... and it just perpetuates the fact that GM is a directionless company.

[jgill16]

Do You Want Gm To Make Profit Or End To End Up Closing. Cause Thats What Will Happen If Gm Does Not Change. Gm Can Have Lower End Prices For Pontiac And Up End Like G8 That Won't Hurt Pontiac Image Espeacially When Pontiac Image Is Going Down The Drains Slowly. And Like U Said When Students Graduate From College Then They Will Buy A Better Car But Before College What Did They Choose Then. That Could Be Said For Any Car Company Like Chevy. A Student But A Chevy Aveo Or Colblt In College Then After They Graduate Get That High Paying Job They Go Back To Chevy To Buy That Dream Car They Always Wanted Zo6 Or Zr1. And Buy Btw If The Scion Is So Crapy Why Is The Car Recommended In Consumer Report Year After Year. I'm Not Trying To Pump Up Scion I Would Never Buy One For The Reason I Love Gm Cars But I'm Just Stating The Facts And Gm Needs To Do Something Soon.

[Bravada]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I'm not going to respond everyone who pointed out Scion.

I mean... what a complete JOKE that is.

Pontiac as Scion??? ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME???

Instead of trying to build a brand that purposely tries to be younger, why not build cars that attract younger people?? That is the FALLACY of Scion!! It's still a friggin Toyota in youthful gift wrapping.

I'd rather Pontiac die than see it become an American Scion. SHEESH.

Actually, Scion has been popular with older people too. But it would be hard for GM's xB with a Buick badge on the hood to convince people it is "youthful and progressive". All brands have their limitations, and the brand of the car holds a promise. For Toyota, it is "reliable" and "sensible choice" - little of emotional or particular value. It's a Consumer-Reports-type brand.

I do not necessairly think in young/old categories, because young people of today will be old tomorrow, but a brand with certain attitude and a promise it can hold will flourish. People, young and old, do want a car that is fun to own and drive. People do buy BMWs, Mazdas and Alfa Romeos (if they get a chance to ). That's what Pontiac should, and can, be.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I do not necessairly think in young/old categories, because young people of today will be old tomorrow, but a brand with certain attitude and a promise it can hold will flourish. People, young and old, do want a car that is fun to own and drive. People do buy BMWs, Mazdas and Alfa Romeos (if they get a chance to ). That's what Pontiac should, and can, be.

Yes, there is a bit in that.
Pontiac f'instance, would do better with a rebadged range of Suzuki Swifts rather than rebadged Aveos.
Pontiac - Vroom Vroom Vroom.

[A.J.]

I honestly think of the Pontiac of Tomorrow as a competitor for Mazda.

• Pontiacs would be FWD-based, save for the Solstice.
• Give all Pontiacs AWD standard, save for the Solstice.
• Four cars and a crossover: Solstice, Grand Am (sm. sedan), Grand Prix (md. sedan), Bonneville (lg. sedan), and Torrent (yes, Torrent, sm. CUV)
• Performance tuning all across the board.

A car doesn't have to be fast to be exciting.

[TwoRedPontiacs]

Hey, since the GM brain trust can't seem to differentiate one brand from the other here's an even better idea for saving GM.

1. Close Pontiac, because they are just Chevys anyway.

And then when GM's sales and financial picture still doesn't improve...

2. Close GMC, because they are just Chevys anyway.

And then when GM's sales and financial picture still doesn't improve...

3. Close Buick, because they are probably just Chevys anyway.

And then when GM's sales and financial picture still doesn't improve...

4. Close Saturn, because they are probably just Chevys anyway.

And then when GM's sales and financial picture still doesn't improve...

5 Close Cadillac, because by now they have probably just have become Chevys anyway.

And then when the sales and financial picture still doesn't improve...

6. Have the last guy out of the building turn the lights off, becuase by now it doesn't matter anyway.

[elgreen]

mgescuro, what about Saturn? There's obviously price resistance with Saturn trying to move upmarket...they can't move the Aura or Outlook, Astras are piling up. Should these vehicles be rebadged as Pontiacs and hurriedly get Pontiac away from the red-instrument, overstyled rental-car image it has picked up along the way?

[Butz]

No!
NO!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

If GM kills Pontiac, out of spite I wont ever ever buy a GM!

[paul8488]

GM today is unable to take advantage of any value in Pontiac. Doesn't mean much if there is value in it if it's not being used. GM management does not know what to do with Pontiac, so unless GM decides to change their own management (which will never happen), I think it is necessary that Pontiac closes.

The only US brand GM does right is Chevrolet (though with trucks and SUV sales dive-bombing Chevy is in trouble)... with glimmers of hope at Cadillac. Since we've seen absolutely nothing to show that GM management admits and realises that it is not competent of running 8 NA brands (and therefore is not taking steps to correct that one critical flaw), I have to believe that the only solution is to trim GM down to just a few brands (maybe only Chevrolet and Cadillac) that they current management can possible manage properly.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Bravada

6. In North America, the brand is already thinned, streamlined and prepared to work in combined showrooms -> little overhead.

No it isn't. GM has been saying they're planning that, but nothing has changed. It's actually getting worse with the G3 / Aveo-twin coming. There are still ooddles of stand-alone Pontiac dealerships (or at least ones that aren't paried only with GMC and Buick) selling a whole vast range of cars with no particular market strategy / vision.

[jimschwartz]

Hello Everyone,

I don't believe Pontiac "needs" to close, but like some others with whom I have spoken over the last few years, I feel the eventual demise of Pontiac began with the badge's withdrawl from NASCAR.

Regards,
Jim

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

The only reason to keep Saturn alive is the fact that it has the ability to attract and win over an entire generation of buyers that GM has managed to alienate over the past 20-30 years.

Over that period of time, more and more people have become more accustomed to tighter driving cars, more aggressive designs, technology, etc. In effect, European designs.

There will always be a certain proportion of the US that will always buy a "true" American car, American nameplate, American design. But there is now a growing number of people who don't want that, and want a more sophisticated look, design, and driving experience.

And that's where Saturn comes in.

Saturn needs to expand its dealership base. GM needs to market heavily on the coasts, which has become synonymous to a beachhead for imports the past 20-30 years. Saturn needs to be pure European. And it needs to be distanced from Chevrolet. It needs to be the anti-Chevrolet. Complete with famous Saturn customer service.

That in and of itself is Saturn's advantage in this market.

It is GM's fault for not recognizing it!!



Because they don't have a satellite office in San Francisco.

Will there be much a difference between opel and chevrolet in five years? The Corsa is merging with the Aveo, same with the Astra and what is replacing the cobalt, and the euro market Insignia is much larger than the Vectra to maximize commonality with the Epsilon II Malibu. In the sport hatchback niche, the Astra has sold less than 5000 cars or less than 10 per dealership. Saturn has tried to be the non-American America brand in several incarnations for close to 20 years now and whether they try to be Japanese to European they've made little inroads towards VW, Honda, or Toyota. Saturn has always been a brand searching for a purpose, but its never really found one.

[Hitman1970]

Would you merge Saturn with Buick if Pontiac and GMC go, as you have Buick only having five vehicles in your other commentary? I bought my Buick from a Chevy/Buick Dealership. With Pontiac and GMC gone you could have:

Chevy/Buick - Full bread and butter line with smaller luxury line
Saturn- Euro flavored import intender brand
Cadillac- "Standard of the World"

[gardnet1]

You really shouldn't consider Torrent with you rational to kill Pontiac as it goes to GMC this fall.

I think Pontiac gets two years of reprive with its new wave of vehicles coming in. As far as I know they are profitable like GMC.

Can't say the same for money pit Saab. Also Hummer and Saturn aren't making any doe either; I'm not sure about Buick but they only have 3 models including one hit.