Pontiac Needs to Close

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

With GM's new idea of turning Pontiac into a "small car" company....
I have to revive this thread...

GM.... You need to close Pontiac.

Saturn needs to go, nothing but a hemmorage since before it's inception.


IF GM had spent that cash on Chevy back in the day....one could imagine where GM would be today...

We'd be saying Japan Inc who???

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

Saturn needs to go, nothing but a hemmorage since before it's inception.

IF GM had spent that cash on Chevy back in the day....one could imagine where GM would be today...

We'd be saying Japan Inc who???

The last sole hope for Saturn is for GM to really turn it into a true European car brand.
Saturn would be for people who do not like American-style designs and performance.
It would be GM's answer to VW.
Saturn needs to be differentiated, and currently, it is half-assed.

Pontiac has no identity. GM's idea of a RWD performance brand was smart, but they apparently are pulling back from that.

To give Pontiac rehases of Aveo, Cruze, and Cobalt, effectively neuters the brand.

To paraphrase someone who posted on leftlanenews (or autoblog).... Pontiac is and will be nothing more than Chevrolet's retarded brother.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

The last sole hope for Saturn is for GM to really turn it into a true European car brand.
Saturn would be for people who do not like American-style designs and performance.
It would be GM's answer to VW.
Saturn needs to be differentiated, and currently, it is half-assed.

Pontiac has no identity. GM's idea of a RWD performance brand was smart, but they apparently are pulling back from that.

To give Pontiac rehases of Aveo, Cruze, and Cobalt, effectively neuters the brand.

To paraphrase someone who posted on leftlanenews (or autoblog).... Pontiac is and will be nothing more than Chevrolet's retarded brother.

Mgescuro - are you "in" on NSAP's info re: Pontiac?

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Lichtronamo

Mgescuro - are you "in" on NSAP's info re: Pontiac?

I wish I was.
My family has gone through 6 Pontiacs since the 70's from LeMans to G6.
I'd kind of like to know what's going on.

Pontiac has for quite sometime been about athletic, mainstream, fun-to-drive, performance cars.
Why the push to small cars, essentially being a redundancy to Chevy's lineup?

What is Pontiac's new competition target? Mini? Mazda? Nissan? VW?

If Pontiac is to regain any semblance of respect, it needs to focus on its heritage of mainstream performance cars.
Give us the G8 and G8ST. Give us a RWD G6 on Alpha. Give us an improved Solstice. Give us Firebird on Alpha.

And if Pontiac really wanted to go wild with common sense?
Rename G8 -- Bonneville. Rename G6 -- Grand Am.

GM needs to face facts. Pontiac is all but irrelevant in the market. Without a true focus on Pontiac, it is nothing better than a drain on GM's resources. It also becomes nothing more than a Chevy trim level.
If that is the case, then they might as well let Pontiac die.

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I wish I was.
My family has gone through 6 Pontiacs since the 70's from LeMans to G6.
I'd kind of like to know what's going on.

Wow, 6!

I won't post then how many I've owned then, much less both my parents!

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

Wow, 6!

I won't post then how many I've owned then, much less both my parents!

1974 LeMans (gone in 1994)
1975 Bonneville (gone in 1997)
1978 Firebird (gone in 1995)
1981 Phoenix (gone in 1994)
1995 Grand Am (gone in 2008)
2005 G6 (with my dad now, as the grand am was totaled)

My family has a trend of keeping cars 10+ years in most cases.

[JerryL]

The only GM brand with a "performance image" is Chevrolet. If you want to kill Pontiac there needs to some other reasons to base it on. Pontiac hasn't had a significant performance image for decades. And outside of North America it has none whatsoever. It is not even in the discussion, unless the talk turns to RETRO.
I'm not against keeping Pontiac [or the name] alive, I just don't feel the performance angle is relevent anymore. And I've spent my whole working life in the racing and performance aftermarket.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

Saturn needs to go, nothing but a hemmorage since before it's inception.

IMO, both Saturn and Pontiac need to go. Chevrolet is the only brand GM needs to have.

[Ed Arcuri]

My first Pontiac was a Catalina - when Catalina meant two door hardtop. It was a 1953 model that I drove my Senior year in high school. It was a Chevrolet with silver streaks and a straight eight cylinder motor that would've served as a lovely boat anchor.
I remember when they dumped a 389 in a Tempest, stole a name from Ferrari, and sold a pile of 'em with Ronnie and the Daytonas singing their praises.
I remember when they called a Firebird model Trans Am years before they actually won a Trans Am.
I'm ready to buy another Pontiac and three of my family members drive them.
I have no illusions, however, about Pontiac's heritage. A nicely up-trimmed selection of Chevy based cars with a special model or two thrown in worked for years when Pontiac was sold in stand alone stores. Now that they share floor space with Buick and GMC, Pontiacs can be offered in a limited range of models and fare nicely.
As long as they don't bring back the silver streaks . . .
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

My first Pontiac was a Catalina - when Catalina meant two door hardtop. It was a 1953 model that I drove my Senior year in high school. It was a Chevrolet with silver streaks and a straight eight cylinder motor that would've served as a lovely boat anchor.
I remember when they dumped a 389 in a Tempest, stole a name from Ferrari, and sold a pile of 'em with Ronnie and the Daytonas singing their praises.
I remember when they called a Firebird model Trans Am years before they actually won a Trans Am.
I'm ready to buy another Pontiac and three of my family members drive them.
I have no illusions, however, about Pontiac's heritage. A nicely up-trimmed selection of Chevy based cars with a special model or two thrown in worked for years when Pontiac was sold in stand alone stores. Now that they share floor space with Buick and GMC, Pontiacs can be offered in a limited range of models and fare nicely.
As long as they don't bring back the silver streaks . . .
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri

I remember also the Canadian Pontiacs who used Chevy drivetrains and chassis with Pontiac bodies: Parisienne and Laurentian. There was even a time (I wasn't born yet, just read some old cars articles in some magazines) then Pontiac was more popular then Chevrolet in Canada.

I wonder how the "silver streaks" will look today in a updated form? Maybe we need another Knudsen to shake up things. Pontiac already once faced death at the recession of 1958, it was lucky then the wide-track idea worked and saved Pontiac at that time (DeSoto wasn't lucky and Dodge quitted briefly the mid-price market to go more head-to-head with Chevy and Ford and stepped in the same territory as Plymouth, some said it marked the beginning of the end for Plymouth)

[Xenon]

I'd be surprised if GM decides to close shop on Pontiac. There's the G8 which just got introduced, and it would really be a stupid idea to pitch Pontiac as a economy brand...it isn't, and I bet most people who remember Pontiacs of old will see right through that marketing. Things are looking pretty grim for Pontiac....

[LeSabre]

I am thinking that GM is afraid to go forward & make Pontiac an all RWD brand. Regardless of what the market is like. GM is/are acting like pussies when it comes to going forward w/this plan. Chevy(in part) & Saturn can cater to the FWD crowd.

GM, When it comes to Pontiac, show some guts/balls & do what is right for Pontiac. To make Pontiac relevant again, for Pontiac to MEAN something!!

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

I am thinking that GM is afraid to go forward & make Pontiac an all RWD brand.

I agree, I think they are afraid. But at least they are gauging public reception with the G8, rather than pulling a Chrysler and betting the farm on RWD vehicles, or pulling a Saturn, and redoing the entire vehicle lineup, for less sales than in prior years. Besides, GM has other priorities for its money, like Chevy(which is essential for GM survival, so I stand by this decision as I watch Pontiac die), the Volt, Cadillac, the semi-revival of Buick, and improved marketing and leading quality. What happened to cutting redundant models?

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

I am thinking that GM is afraid to go forward & make Pontiac an all RWD brand.

No, they're broke. These posts about fantasy RWD or Turbo/AWD line-ups to revitalize Pontiac just completely ignore the reality GM finds itself in. Look at every news item about GM's evolving product plans and the one constant in all of them is either delay or cancellation. GM is near rock bottom on cash with insufficient resources to maintain product cycles for core products like Malibu and Impala, much less invest in what amount to niche products. GM is also unable to effectively market the range of products they do have given their financial situation. The best GM can do for Pontiac going forward is to slap twin kidney grilles on existing Chevy products to provide greater volume for BPG stores and the factories making individual platforms.

[Ed Arcuri]

The title of this thread is "Pontiac needs to close." I certainly hope not.
I bought a new Pontiac Solstice GXP yesterday.
I swore I was going to wait until GM put flex fuel capability in a sports car. My Mom told me not to swear . . . . .
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri
P.S. Mom was right.