Pontiac Needs to Close

[spidge]

Originally Posted by logansowner

I can agree with this. They want to tell everyone they can't close because then GM won't have a performance brand..yea...no Torrent..oh the humanity.

I'm tellin yea, Buick, Caddy Chevy. Saab can remain an out of NA brand. Saturn is entirely redundant.

The Solstice could be a Chevy. The G8 could be an Impala.

It doesn't need to be complicated, but GM wants to make it that way.

Good plan, but the Solstice and Vibe should get new names in the Chevy lineup. How about Monza, and Rhythm (continuing on the musical theme)?

These multiple divisions worked back when luxury and performance were mutually exclusive, and couldn't both be had in the same car. Now, you can have both in the same car (Cadillac), and performance alone these days is considered somewhat of a luxury (Lotus Elise). Is there a need to have a division devoted "exclusively" to performance (Pontiac) if it is not competing with Porsche or Ferrari? At everyman prices, Pontiacs would demand that Chevrolets have no road-handling capabilities whatsoever, to differentiate them, but with the Corvette and Camaro, some of those abilities would have to trickle down to the rest of the Chevy lineup. Have Chevrolet offer bread-and-butter transportation, and "affordable" performance (Corvette, Camaro, G8), and Cadillac offer luxury and performance. Those two should cover the car market in North America. Let Buick sell cars in China, and Saab sell cars in Europe. As for Saturn, is there anything in their lineup that isn't, or won't eventually be, in other GM showrooms anyway?

[2002 Caddy]

I didn't know "Pontiac is performance".. I thought "Pontiac is car"

We don't need to shut Pontiac down... GM marketing is doing it for us.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by longislander

I will repeat what's been said many times here already, as a buyer I just don't want a Chevy. My current "fleet" includes an '02 Bonneville, '07 G5 (GREAT car, btw, never understood all the hating), and '07 Solstice. My plan is to replace that Bonneville with a G8 next year.
I have a great relationship with my Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer and have sent them at least 6 new customers over the years. The G6 especially is a great car to be able to recommend, at the price it just sells itself once someone is given the suggestion to take a look at it.
GM simply can't afford to risk losing loyal customers like myself and many others similarly inclined.

Just out of curiosity, can I ask why Pontiac over Chevy (aside from the G8, Vibe, or Solstice, which aren't avaliable at Chevy dealerships)? Styling?

[notacarguy]

Based on what happened at Olds, I think it's better to keep Pontiac with sister models elsewhere in the lineup than to completely kill it. We can only hope GM starts taking the brand in the right direction, but outright killing it would be worse for GM than continuing its current track.

[jasaero]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

How??
You want a Pontiac Captiva? Pontiac Rodeo? Pontiac Barina?
What you want to say is "Pontiac needs Zeta."

But Zeta simply isn't enough, is it? That's not enough to make the dealership base happy because it only caters to a small amount of people.

Pontiac G6 -- the fleet queen.
Pontiac G5 -- the ultimate rebadge
Pontiac Torrent -- an answer to a question no one asked
ETC

We can desire performance RWD cars -- coupes, sedans, and roadsters. And for a time, GM led us to believe that THIS was the direction they were going to take Pontiac.

Then the crap cars reared its ugly head. Now Pontiac Wave is coming?
It's obvious you can't trust GM to do what is necessary to support Pontiac as the performance brand.

What you're essentially stuck with is G8 and Solstice. And that's not enough.

The key to creating the BPG channel was to give dealerships sufficient products while Buick, Pontiac, and GMC were downsized. But downsizing isn't happening is it?

There's inconsistency here.

if GM can't figure out how to keep Pontiac the performance brand, then it needs to be shut down.

The torrent is on the way out I am pretty sure. Not sure when, but it won't be around much longer. I really think the only reason the G5 and smaller cars are coming to pontiac has more to do with keeping BPG dealers needing small fuel efficient cars that are selling now happy. You can't just pull cars like that, that are ALSO right for Pontiac outta you bum hole!!

What would you say if the first small car with mini type size(smaller lighter than NG Cobalt) with a little 1.4l turbo and better than NG Cobalt mileage was the second car to get this new small engine?? Give a GXP version the 2.0L Turbo from the cobalt SS and it's weight advantage by being the smaller car would be superior. Don't do a coupe or sedan, only a hatch so it has OK utility to replaces a bigger car ok. What they are doing with GM DAT and the Beat could spawn a similar vehicle with more sporting attitude for Pontiac.

Chevy could get something more along the lines of Trax or Groove or just something totally different that fits Chevy better. Really to me the Beat was more a pontiac styled vehicle overall than a Chevy anyhow and if it was racy in tune, it would make a good Pontiac.

[jasaero]

BTW, Alpha WiLL happen for Pontiac. The only FWD car will be a racy micro and maybe a g5 replacement with more pontiac specific styling.

Pontiac isn't going anywhere. The more I think about it the more this rumor was obviously focused on GMC, but even that probably won't happen if the housing crunch and fuel prices let up before the end of the year. Hummer might get sold off, but even that will only happen if they can't get loans they need to keep going to the end of this economic slowdown.

[Beau]

I never understood why "Chevrolet" which is a french word, a decidedly American Icon.
PONTIAC is a Native <---- American tribe name. I just never understood that.

I enjoy that Pontiac is paying homage to our Native American's. Thats just me.

[dav305z]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

How??
You want a Pontiac Captiva? Pontiac Rodeo? Pontiac Barina?
What you want to say is "Pontiac needs Zeta."

But Zeta simply isn't enough, is it? That's not enough to make the dealership base happy because it only caters to a small amount of people.

Pontiac G6 -- the fleet queen.
Pontiac G5 -- the ultimate rebadge
Pontiac Torrent -- an answer to a question no one asked
ETC

General Motors overcomplicated the Pontiac formula. The problem with the G5, G6, and Torrent is not so much that they exist, but rather, in the small, easily fixed details that could have made each of these vehicles legitimately sporty. After all, Nissan and Mazda don't seem to have a problem being perceived as sporty with the exact same basic cars-- compact, mid-sizer, and small SUV.

What pains me with Pontiac is that minor adjustments could completely change the perception of the brand. Give the G6 a real manual option, a DI 3.6L, and stiffer spring rates, thicker sways (all parts on the GM shelf). Eliminate the base Torrent. Offer the G5 in Cobalt SS trim. Tada! Performance brand!

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by Beau

I never understood why "Chevrolet" which is a french word, a decidedly American Icon.
PONTIAC is a Native <---- American tribe name. I just never understood that.

I enjoy that Pontiac is paying homage to our Native American's. Thats just me.

You post on a GM site but you don't know why the Chevrolet brand carries that name?

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by jasaero

Alpha, Alpha, Alpha, and MORE Alpha for Pontiac. It would be mostly fixed. So what if we have to wait until 2013-2015 with lots of G5 and G3 crap in between.

How is a brand "fixed" if nobody buys those cars? Alpha could be the best thing on four wheels but the Pontiac brand and image will instantly kill it, how would you convince people? GM isn't even going to be here by 2013 at the rate they are going.

[mkwelbornjr]

Pontiac should have a great compact car similar to the VW GTI. Lots of luxury and performance rolled into a solid sporty package. and 30MPG out a turbo 4.

[Tony's BlkGTP]

Originally Posted by CadiEldo67

Go and check one out sometime, I sat in one, revved it up (GT version ) and I am seriously in love, it was very comfortable, sounded great, looked great, and it was everything that a Pontiac should be. I drive a 2002 GP GT coupe and I would go with the sedan no questions asked. But then again, you aren't me, but you should still see how practical it really is.

I have sat in one and I love it. However, I personally don't care for 4 door cars, period. Besides, I have a 4 door Altima the other half drives, so I don't need another one in the household. I would much rather have a G8 coupe with a 6spd manual. If that doesn't happen, I will probably have to look outside of GM's doors!!

[Odin]

From an outsiders point of view, ie an aussie, I wonder what is the point of pontiac when chevy has the camaro coming and the corvette. All it needs is a rwd 4 dr and it's the sports division. Probably get flamed for that.

[caling7]

Here's a crazy idea. Pontiac should be, and is the only GM brand that could be all about 4-door coupes (though i hate that fake marketing term, you understand what I'm referring to). Chevrolet and Opel/Saturn still need to build sedans and crossovers that are practical enough to appeal to the largest amount of people. Since that market is covered, Pontiac can concentrate on building absolutely stunning sculptures-on-wheels that are so low, long and sleek that they are on the verge of being impractical.

Basically, it would be a male-targeted brand where looks and performance (FWD, RWD, AWD, doesn't matter) override the other necessities of practicality and mass-appeal because the other two mainstream GM brands (Chevy & Opel/Saturn) already take care of that. What do you think?

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I'm not going to respond everyone who pointed out Scion.

I mean... what a complete JOKE that is.

Pontiac as Scion??? ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME???

Instead of trying to build a brand that purposely tries to be younger, why not build cars that attract younger people?? That is the FALLACY of Scion!! It's still a friggin Toyota in youthful gift wrapping.

I'd rather Pontiac die than see it become an American Scion. SHEESH.

I agree that Pontiac should not ever be a Scion-like. Saturn would be the better choice to do a Scion-like thing with...or even Geo if it were to return, Which I highly doubt would happen. I too, would rather see Pontiac meet up w/Oldsmobile, Plymouth & Eagle than become a worse embarassment as a Scion-like division. This kind of idiotic/moronic idea is simply a bad idea & should never come to fruition!

As to Mgescuro's thread topic, I disagree that it should die.
I think that if GM was REALLY serious about brand identity of each division it would put money into each division as it has Cadillac to turn them around & get them each on the right track w/their own specific missions to their respective markets.