Pontiac, Buick & Saturn = One Amazing Brand!

[FireFox89]

Pontiac and Buick's different identities are calse enough to justify the Buick nameplate being sold with Pontiac. While Saturn and Pontiac are trying to reach the same demographic with many of their products, to the point it muddies the water for each brands image. Plus saturn would be one of the top 3 easiest brands to buyout (behind saab and hummer).

1. The aura could merge with the g6 and give it more european flare.
2. The sky could be rebranded a chevrolet with mild reworking and could be sold as a corvette alternative for people who don't have the funding for a corvette.
2(a). The sky (stingray) and camaro could help a Cadillac and Corvette based lineup in europe.
3. The outlook is one of four lambdas, eliminating that by itself would help with the rebadging crisis.
4. The vue same thing as 3 only with the even worse rebadging crisis that is the theta platform.
5. The astra, the only "true" saturn that sticks to its brand image, while its a great car that in theory sell like hotcakes given the price of gas, isn't selling because of the small engine and hp rating only gets a 1-2 better mpg rating then its bigger ecotech cousin (well and NO marketing of the Astra).
(In theory if saturn gets cancelled) the astra could replace the abysmal aveo with a 1.8/2.0 liter (maybe a i4 diesel on the option list too) tuned for 110-125hp/38-40 mpg instead of 140hp/28-29mpg.

I don't want any brand to go really but gm overshot the market saturn was intended for (a model line of scion, yaris, fit and small vw fighers that would get near the best mpg on the market), and now sales with a new model line reflect that.

[FireFox89]

Originally Posted by fbg6coupe

I agree that Saturn should go. All of their cars can be rebadged to other brands.

The Astra should be more performance oriented and replace the G5 (or be the NEW g5)

The Aura and G6 should be merged taking the best from each model

Leave the SUVs to Chevy and GMC and Enclave for Buick. Pontiac doesn't need one.

I think the SKY is much nicer than the Solstice (two soft and bulbous) I say put a twin port grill on the Sky and make it a Pontiac.

And that covers Saturn's entire line-up.

Saturn is the easiest brand to cut because it has NO history, and no real brand loyalty since its earlier vehicles were full of problems...

Right now it just dilutes and competes with Chevy and Pontiac.

I also think Saab could be incorporated into the Buick and Cadillac line-ups.

THE NEW GM:

PONTIAC (young, sporty, style) - BUICK (conservative, luxury, comfy) - GMC (premium SUVs and CUVs)

CHEVY - base models for the masses

CADILLAC - Premium sport luxury

With clearly defined models that don't overlap, this would be a success..

So long Saturn, Hummer, and Saab.

Wow i didnt even read your post before posting mine, looks like it is a general consensus with saturn

[GM_Guy81]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

If by passion you mean passion by Chinese Buick... not NA. It disgusts me to see Buick doing so well in CHINA - a communist country and yet it has taken a huge dump here on its home soil.

There is no excuse for this type of behavior by GM. They obviously don't care about the brand besides the Enclave and I think the brand should be killed off if product is not going to be given to it.

What in the WORLD are you talking about? You honestly do not like the design of those Buicks in the pictures? You're upset because you think those designs come from China? And you would rather see Buick killed off than use those vehicles? That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on here. Do you prefer the current LaCrosse and Lucerne that have been total sales disasters? I honestly do not understand your position. Those new designs look amazing and could totally reinvigorate Buick. Its not like they will be built in China and imported here.

[svx92]

I agree that great product no matter what brand and model names are attached is needed

So if Pontiac isnt to be the American Holden/BMW fighter- where does that leave the brand? I love that concept so why do we have the new Vibe, warmed over G6 and a colbat iand soon to arrive Aveo in their stable and no G8 wagon? I'd love to see solstice with a G8 and rearwheel drive G6- with coupe derivatives- i'd say brand them as Firebird and GTO- three platforms and six models for Pontiac (if you count the G8 ST or whatever it is to be called)

Buick- I'd buy a Buick- if it looked like those concepts- sorry Enclave too large for us- should have a SWB versio. Personally I like Roadmaster and Regal as the names to replace the LWB Park Ave and LaCross- 2 premium sedans and 2 premium cross overs for a halo car that's attainable perhaps the mid size "Regal" spawns a coupe/convert derivative called Riveria. Maybe resurrect Rainer and Rendezvous nameplates so the entire line has aliteration. 4 platforms - 6 offerings

Yes Saturn is a redundant brand. It has a great customer experience, but is seen as entry level cars. New product looks great- but you have the brand perception to overcome. One a larger scale- is there a reason to have Chevrolet and Opel abroad? should the cars be Chevrolet in some markets and Opel in others. As Chevrolet is the volume brand in NA- this is the outlet that needs the brand identity/cohesion and product that went into the Saturn channel. Saturn and Chevy are absorbed into one car line- the New Aura is the next Malibu, Astra is Corvair, and yes- I'd allow the Impala to be a G8 derivative also available in LWB using the "Roadmaster" chasis to add volume to the G8 and Buick Roadmaster assembly plant, Vue becomes the 'Nox. Saturns have newer, cooler trendy buildings but does converting them to Chevrolet channels create too many Chevy dealers?

Cadillac- 3series fighter in coupe wagon sedan convertible, CTS in coupe wagon sedan and convertible, DTS, awd only crossovers due to fwd frames- SRX, ERX (lambda/escalade replacement), I do like the concept of Allante/XLR as the Halo car- then you Vseries these offerings and that is a full complement.

GMC is redundant- even though my parents have an Envoy- there is no significance- have Chevy absorb the Denali trim line

SAAB- in a perfect world SAAB would be the model line you advance to from the current day Saturn line up. But what do you do now? I see it as the Lexus portfolio of offering RWD and FWD- In the premium house of Caddy/SAAB- the 9-1/9-3/9-5 complement Caddy with FWD oferings- no crossovers needed. 9-1 is the Satrun Sky wearing AeroX fascia.

Hummer- does have good Brand equity- a growing generation love it- but can it continue as a niche? H2 H3 and a jeep wrangler competitor with variants- is there money for this? Is there enough market demand?

I think SAAB Caddy Hummer is a great channel concept. LAst month our Hummer dealer acquired Caddy- Yesterday they assumed and relocated the SAAB franchise- only downside the SAAB had a great free standing building awesome architecture and SAAB-y-ness inside of it.

just my ramblings though...

[BigAls87Z28]

Combine them all and call it Oakland.

[GM-Joe]

If you lived in the U.S. you'd realize that there are so many brands here and many brands don't have high sales but since they sell products world wide they can get by on a subsistence. GM is no different; it makes sense to have a lot of car companies because that helps differentiate vehicles from one anther. Eventually, the Corrolla's and Civics will lose their dominance because a lot of their success is a belief that they are better, if they are or aren't and people don't like to be the same for too long. Thus GM should keep all of their car brands and adjust them as needed to be competitive. I don't see a great need for HUMMER and GMC, but HUMMERs are very unique and GMC is another outlet to diversify from blue collar Chevy. Thus, GM should focus on cars and those cars will help bring focus to Saturn, Buick, and Pontiac.

[LoneWolf]

I think the flaw in your argument is that it assumes too much so that the U.S. market is identical in its thoughts and attitudes about car purchases to Australia.

While there are obvious similarities among enthusiasts the world over for sporty performance marquis, taking the Buick and Saturn lineups along with a few non-USDM nameplates and slapping an arrowhead on them isn't going to fix GM's problem. In point-of-fact, I think it represents the kind of ill-conceived visceral management that has gotten GM to where it is today.

GM has an incredibly hard road ahead, and recent US legislative efforts haven't made that road any easier. But they've also made some tremendous strides over the past few years.

Cutting brands isn't necessarily the answer; only two things COMBINED can save GM:

1. A concerted, rededicated focus on good, SOUND management (both product and financial), which will lead to

2. Class-leading product the American consumer will actually WANT to buy.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Have you all lost your minds?

How could anyone in their right minds justify killing this? These automobiles have passion in design.. not your cookie cutter designs..

I totally agree!!!!! Buick is going to have a great future!! No doubt!!

[GMusa]

But I couldnt disagree more with the "Pontiac, Buick, Saturn" thing! GM needs to keep all of their brands! The only brand that i could see beging sold off or closed is GMC... Its just a Chevy with a different front end. As for HUMMER being sold off, I disagree again.. GM needs to make HUMMER more like Jeep - smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. Hybrid HUMMERs wouldnt be a bad idea either. If that doesnt work.. THEN consider selling HUMMER off. Oh, and maybe selling off Saab... but only after GM puts the XWD system in a G6 GXP Sti/Evo fighter!! But Saab is useful for their tech.

[vcs2600]

Meanwhile back in reality:

- GM couldn't even manage 6 brands back in their glory days. The 60/70s/80s were full of rebadges and poorly differentiated products. Now that they're almost bankrupt, this isn't going to change.

- Nobody's going to buy a $30K Pontiac. GM has tried this over and over and it's never going to work. A "RWD" Pontiac division would sell less than Saab. Pontiac is a cheap brand now and forever, either deal with it or dump it.

- GM's real problem isn't so much brands but that they have 6000 dealerships to sell less cars that Toyota's 1500 dealerships. Rearrange brands all you want, until you fix the Crap Dealership problem, it won't help. Half the time, it's the same store, different sign anyway.

- GM has been in reaction-mode for the last 15 years and has been unable to manage any brand consistantly for longer than 5 years. Only exceptions are Chevy, Cadillac, and Hummer. Why does GM keep dumping money into Oldsmobile, Saturn or Buick only to give up and move on to something else after few years? Pick the "winners" now and stick with them for the long term!

[Markld74]

CONSOLIDATION WOULD BE GREAT, BUT.....
With how GM set up Saturn as a Franchise consolidating would not be possible, it would be easier to sell the brand, along with Saab and Hummer. Gee, Tata is in the market for a few brands, can anyone say package deal??? Would give GM extra R&D money to put into all its brands.

Make Buick Affordable FWD Luxury: Add a small CUV and 4 Cylinder Sedan (Opel Insignia) and give them the G6 Convertible.
Make Pontiac Affordable Everyday Driver Performance: Solstice, Cobalt Sized Sedan & Coupe 4 cylinder with turbo option but with a sporty appearance & handling with FWD & AWD options call it the G4 (Cobalt SS go bye bye, ugly car anyways). Kill G8, sales are slow on it already. Update the G6 Sedan & Coupe as 4 Cylinder and turbo FWD & AWD performance handling. Bring back manuals as well, people who like 4cylidner performance like manuals. (GM screwed up not offering the G6 4 Cylinder Sedan with one, lost lots of sales to Honda, Nissan and Toyota with that mistake). Small niche brand that is fun and practical.
Cadillac & Chevrolet keep pretty much as is, but add more subcompact and micro cars to Chevrolet along with Hybrids. Give Chevrolet the Opel Astra Wagon and Hatchback add a Sedan version, to replace the Cobalt & Vibe.

This could all be done within a 5 year time and would not break the bank. 4 Strong unique brands. Plus you are then keeping the 4 Brands with the most street credit, Saturn has none, never did and never will.

[Murrow]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Why bother with the rebadges?

Just sell Buick, Opel and Holden in the former Buick, Pontiac & GMC stores and send Saturn to the scrap heap.

Frankly, this is my favorite idea so far.

[schmallz]

The reason that Saturn's great products sell poorly are because they are Saturns.

There is no Reason that GM can't pair Opel with Chevy is there?

As for the G8 becoming an Impala, wouldn't work because the G8 is too small to be considered Full Size, the Chinese Park Avenue is a more appropiate size.

[Greg Burr]

Chevrolet = entry level volume brand with a wide range of vehicles. The SS moniker could make Pontiac redundant. Chevy trucks make the retail side of GMC redundant. Distribution channel for a Holden model.

Buick = luxury with emphasis on comfort. Distribution channel for another Holden model or two. Good brand to roll out 2-mode hybrid for passenger cars: the margiins will support it.

Cadillac = luxury + performance.

Saturn and Buick can be combined, even if an Invicta is based on the Insignia. They complement one another vey well, as long as we have no Outlook. Buick has more international appeal and Holden can do whatever Pontiac could do (actually better) outside of the US.

Saturn = import intender, Euro upscale brand to compete with VW (cheap to maintain and no customer service horror stories).

Sorry about Pontiac, but with Aveo rebadges and G5s this kills the spirit of the brand. The number of brands to manage is madness. Had GM got more of its operational ducks in a row 10 years ago it would be different.

[GTOken]

Originally Posted by fbg6coupe

I agree that Saturn should go. All of their cars can be rebadged to other brands.

The Astra should be more performance oriented and replace the G5 (or be the NEW g5)

The Aura and G6 should be merged taking the best from each model

Leave the SUVs to Chevy and GMC and Enclave for Buick. Pontiac doesn't need one.

I think the SKY is much nicer than the Solstice (two soft and bulbous) I say put a twin port grill on the Sky and make it a Pontiac.

And that covers Saturn's entire line-up.

Saturn is the easiest brand to cut because it has NO history, and no real brand loyalty since its earlier vehicles were full of problems...

Right now it just dilutes and competes with Chevy and Pontiac.

I also think Saab could be incorporated into the Buick and Cadillac line-ups.

THE NEW GM:

PONTIAC (young, sporty, style) - BUICK (conservative, luxury, comfy) - GMC (premium SUVs and CUVs)

CHEVY - base models for the masses

CADILLAC - Premium sport luxury

With clearly defined models that don't overlap, this would be a success..

So long Saturn, Hummer, and Saab.

This is the most sensible post of them all.