Pontiac, Buick & Saturn = One Amazing Brand!

[JoeT]

Let's face it: GM North America has way too many brands. No other auto-corporation in any other part of the world has so many brands concentrated in one market.

Once upon a time this wasn't a problem. Sales were good and the money kept flowing in, but times have changed. Other makes, such as Toyota and Honda, over the last three decades have decimated GM's once strong sales and market base and have shown that no car maker was safe, even in it's own, flag-waving homeland.

Now let's look at GM and it's overseas operations. GM is constantly on top or near the top of the sales charts in Australia/New Zealand and Europe with only a few brands in each, and that's not including Cadillac, Saab and Hummer. Opel/Vauxhall and Chevrolet in Europe and just Holden down under. Not only that, these divisions also return a healthy flow of cash to GM corporation and have been part of the reason GM hasn't gone bust already.

How do they do it? With a good quality product mix and an efficient dealer group. Each brand is focused on what it does and does it well, unlike GM's North American brands which share very similar, or the same rebadge products, thus diluting brand purity and appeal.

Now let's put brand loyalty aside for one minute. What... you can't! Of course you can't. That's the problem and GM is now paying for it. It's seems that only now GM has finally seen the writing on the wall and is now considering closing down more North America brands while investing and consolidating products in others. And it's about time. GM is bleeding and North America is the gaping wound.

I believe the Pontiac, Saturn and Buick in North America need to be merged to form one formidable premium quality brand. I believe it should be called Pontiac, with the Buick and Saturn brand names heading for the big scrap yard in the sky. Why Pontiac? Keep reading.

That means: Commodore, Sportwagon, Ute, Calais, Statesman/Caprice, Corsa, Astra, Insignia/Aura, Antara/Vue, Outlook/Enclave and Sky/Solstice.

There you go - 11 premium products all under the same roof. That's about the same amount as Holden's current range and also a very similar product mix of mostly Opel and Holden-sourced products. Any of the current Buick, Saturn and Pontiac products I didn't mention can be put out for pasture.

The Holden Statesman/Caprice is a perfect replacement for the Buick Lucerne, as is the luxury Holden Calais for the Buick LaCrosse, and with Pontiac already selling the Commodore SS sedan and soon the SS Ute, plus the Sportwagon hopefully sometime in the near future, it makes sense to sell it's sister products, the Statesman/Caprice and Calais as Pontiac's.

The same can be said for Saturn. Currently Saturn and Pontiac have very similar or the same small passenger vehicles under their badges. What's the point of that? There isn't any. Consolidating these products under an expanded Pontiac brand makes perfect sense. It would be a one-stop shop for quality GM small to medium passenger vehicles. The Insignia/Aura should keep FWD Buick buyers very pleased aswell.

The cheaper Daewoo sourced products can remain under the Chevrolet brand. Premium Opel and cheaper Daewoo products should not mix. It only dilutes the brands image and appeal doing so. Just look at Holden.

Holden cut it's Opel sourced Corsa (Barina) and Vectra from it's range and replaced them with the Daewoo sourced Kalos (Barina), Lacetti (Viva) and Tosca (Epica) several years ago due mainly to the higher cost of importing small cars from Europe compared to Korea. While sales of the Barina have improved, the Viva and Epica have been a sales disaster and have lead to many people calling for Holden to introduce a cheaper, Daewoo type brand down under so Holden can return the premium Opel Corsa and Insignia to the lineup. Introducing Chevrolet to our market may be the answer, but that's a different story.

So what does this all prove? It proves GM can do improve sales and products while reducing capital costs by cutting it's North America brands to only three: Chevrolet and Pontiac, plus it's premium global brand, Cadillac.

Rolling GMC and it's products into the current Chevrolet range makes perfect sense and our current 'Which GM Brand(s) Should Get The Chop' Poll proves a lot of our members feel the same way. Stay tuned to GMInsideNews for all the latest news!

This would not be an easy change, especially for die-hard brand loyalists and some dealer groups, but it's the fresh start GM needs to reduce costs, improve sales, products and brand appeal to power on strongly into the future.

PS. As I've stated before, I believe the fate of Saab and Hummer within GM is a totally seperate issue to that facing GM's North American brands and that's why I have not discussed them here.

JoeT

[flashisflamable]

if you mixed those three brands, what would it/they be called? how would you badge it?

[JoeT]

As I explained in my commentary, I believe the Pontiac brand name is the way to go.

[2002 Caddy]

Another poll with an incomplete option list

GM is not doing fine... but cutting another division will only make things worse...

[Firebird00]

Your plan is exactly the same as mine, Chevrolet + Pontiac + Cadillac in the USA linked with their overseas twins. I think its the best path to take if brands are going to be put out to pasture. The Pontiac name has to be kept because it has far more power than Saturn and is equal in recognition to Buick in my eyes.

[plane]

Except that Pontiac has never been a luxury brand.

The Chevrolet Malibu was the final nail in the Saturn coffin.
The Malibu proves that Saturn is all wrong.
Everything GM wanted to do with Saturn can be done with Chevrolet.

GM doesn't need to cut brands or lose products either.

For example -
Let each independent dealer know that Pontiac will have two cars, take your pick.
Saturn will only have a mid-size car, a sporty roadster and a smaller minivan.
GMC produces one fullsize truck and a mid-sized SUV.
Buick produces only a luxury full-size car and full-size SUV.

Regardless of the example, split it in the way that makes most sense -
the key here is that between the four or five lesser nameplates,
you build a single cohesive non-overlapping full-line of vehicles.

And your dealers need to consolidate if they want a full range of product.
Overall you haven't lost any brands.
Overall, you haven't lost sales because all you've done is cut out the duplication.

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by plane

Except that Pontiac has never been a luxury brand.

I wouldn't call Holden a luxury brand either, but they sell the luxury Calais and Statesman/Caprice along side the sporty SS, family Berlina and bog-stock Omega. It's the quality and price of the product that matters to most buyers, not the badge it's wearing, and that's why the Holden's luxury models sell well, dispite the no-thrills Holden badge.

If it's a wanky badge your interested in, buy a Cadillac or a BMW.

[Sal Collaziano]

Buick should be the brand name in this case. Especially since we're talking about a formidable "premium quality brand". Pontiac isn't considered "premium" anywhere.. Buick is..

[/subject]

[logansowner]

Not gonna work. First, Saturn could be OK if it was closer to Opel, but adding a huge CUV doesn't help.

Buick is important, and the cars are perfect for the owners they want. the 60+ group doesn't want 40 buttons on the dash, they want a key, a shifter, a brake and a gas pedal. Get in and go. Buick doesn't need to be BMW.

Pontiac is a useless brand. For a division the call sporty, they have a G8 and a Solstice. The G8 could be an Impala and the Solstice could be a Chevy just fine. If Pontiac was really a performance division, I'd say leave it, but if you can't do it right, move on.

[djo165]

If you are only going to keep one other US brand in addition to Chevy and Cadillac, it should probably be Buick, not Pontiac. I say this even though I personally would like Pontiac more. The Buick reputation is far better than Pontiac's.

My suggestion would be to keep Buick, GMC, and Pontiac. Then kill the Saturn brand, and divert the Astra and upcoming new Aura to Pontiac to replace the aging G6. The Astra is the only current Saturn offering that doesn't have a very similar sibling currently being sold by either GMC or Pontiac (if you count GMC's upcoming Terrain built off the Vue.)

This plan leverages the numerically superior BGP dealership channel and allows for the killing off of the smaller dealership channel, which would be cheaper than the reverse.

In effect, Saturn has become the new Oldsmobile. It's a good brand, with good offerings. But without the proper advertising push behind it, Saturn isn't going to grow or improve.

It's not nice, but it is logical.

[RedVee8]

Sort of similar to my thoughts of creating one line from Pontiac and Saturn. I'd have kept Buick as well. But this could be ok, but maybe they should be Buick rather than Pontiac? Not sure on that point, could be swayed either way.

[mbukukanyau]

Have you all lost your minds?

How could anyone in their right minds justify killing this? These automobiles have passion in design.. not your cookie cutter designs..

[jgill16]

Yes I strongly agress give this man a GOLD METAL. Kill Buick Here In The Us Use The Funds For Cadillac,pontiac,chevy. We Already Have A Luxury Icon Is Called Cadillac And Gm Can Pump More Money Into Cadillac And Make A Affordable Version Smillar To Bls And Sell Between $27,000-36,000 And Make Better Chevy's And Pontiac. Gm Should Give Buick To China Since Buick Seems To Do Better Over There. There Only The Few That Would By Buick Than The Masses That Would Buy Affordable Cadillac. Gm Is Wasting Their Time And Money On The Buick Line That Will Not Sell Like Before. Kill Kill Kill Buick. Buick Must Die Or Gm Will Die off.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by jgill16

Yes I strongly agress give this man a GOLD METAL. Kill Buick Here In The Us Use The Funds For Cadillac,pontiac,chevy. We Already Have A Luxury Icon Is Called Cadillac And Gm Can Pump More Money Into Cadillac And Make A Affordable Version Smillar To Bls And Sell Between $27,000-36,000 And Make Better Chevy's And Pontiac. Gm Should Give Buick To China Since Buick Seems To Do Better Over There. There Only The Few That Would By Buick Than The Masses That Would Buy Affordable Cadillac. Gm Is Wasting Their Time And Money On The Buick Line That Will Not Sell Like Before. Kill Kill Kill Buick. Buick Must Die Or Gm Will Die off.

Here's another guy who thinks we've found the fountain of youth and old people aren't going to be around any longer.. Sure, kill Buick and send all the older people to Lexus. Cadillac doesn't build cars for older people anymore. That's what Buick is for (the domestic Lexus).

[Patate]

My 2 cents.

Chevy dealers
Cadillac dealers
Pontiac-Saturn-Buick-GMC dealers

Pontiac could let go of their G3-G5 FWD stuff, Torrent etc.... and have RWD cars, G8 and Alpha (i think it's that name) RWD compact (call it the pursuit.. why not?)
Saturn would have the "bread and butter" volume stuff in those dealers
Buick has the luxury (with the upcoming buick cars, you can call them luxury)
GMC the trucks (because yes, gas prices will go down, and yes, the economy will do better soon).

For years I have thought GM could do something about a standalone saturn brand, which would be different from the whole GM mentality. nearly 2 decades after, management must realize they can't meet the initial goal of that brand.

IMHO, Saturn must be merged with Pontiac, in order to "cleanse" the excitement division from stuff like the actual G5, the Torrent and the Wave (G3).