NSAP Blogs: Article Conclusion, CTS Excitement

[nsap]

Originally Posted by cfch3399

Not an accomplishment if the market share of crossovers is as small as it is at present. Let's see if crossovers make it anywhere near the sales of cars let alone trucks.
It'll be interesting if customers will be lured to crossovers simply because that's where car manufacturers make a lot of money.
It's remarkable that a company as large as GM can't focus on several things at the same time.

Don't quote me on this, but I recall reading something that said by the end of this year crossovers will be the largest market in the US.

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

WTF!!!!!!!!!!
Is that a 2008 STS??? Are GM Designers color blind?!?!?!?!? It's a weird cobbled together test mulish look.

The dash looks like it's wrapped in leather. And the wood on the wheel looks very nice.

Edit: No pedals either. What is this car???

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted. As a result, I've created a new thread with all the pics of the refreshed model spied here:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...717#post660717

Maybe the interior is not part of the '07 facelift? Could be '08 like megeebee said. I don't know.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted. As a result, I've created a new thread with all the pics of the refreshed model spied here:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...717#post660717

Maybe the interior is not part of the '07 facelift? Could be '08 like megeebee said. I don't know.

It's a 2007.

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by nsap

It's a 2007.

I know it's a 2007, but I was thinking megeebee meant that GM will refresh the interior for '08. Now that I think about it, it doesn't make too much sense. Then again, you never know these days with GM.

[GMFreak8]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

No. I"m not being unrealistic. I realized GM's has made an impressive return in the design adn fit and finish of each car. It's an amazing turnaround. BUt ultimately, they still have a ways to go when it comes to differentiating each car. It just comes down to the details.
GM did a great job differentiating Epsilon, but there essentially are 4 different Epsilon platforms. The North American one. The European one. The Saab one. And the Alfa one. So they're all different animals.
It doesn't seem like GM's taking that extra half step to differentiate the Lambdas. It looks like they're about as differentiated as teh GMT-900's.

I'm just going to repeat what I said before, you're being unrealistic if you think you're going to get vehicles built on Lambda that don't share any parts. How much more different do you want? They don't look anything alike inside or out, they just share some parts.

Cadillac didn't do anything "wrong" per se. But there wouldn't be a need for a BLS if CTS was actually sized correctly to compete with the 3-series and C-Class, instead of straddling the line between the 3 and 5 series.
Now if STS is gonna be larger, that's fine. but is it gonna straddle the line between 5 and 7 series? It barely competes with the 5 series, now it's gonna compete with 7 series?? Even at the "low end" of that high end class, there's the XJ. That's still not an easy competitor in prestige.
So, in my eyes, there's a lot of brand and positioning confusion at Cadillac, should CTS actually become larger. We will, of course, wait for the final CTS specs and an explanation from Lutz at some future auto show event, just to make sure.

You do know that the STS as it is now, isn't going to be around forever, they are going to come out with new models....

Who says they can't compete? Apparently now we're saying GM has failed before they've even attempted anything....

WHich is fine, if the CTS were a US only car, made for and built for America. If it were, I wouldn't be having this discussion. And I would be jumping for joy in waiting for the official CTS announcement. But if GM"s intentions of taking Cadillac global, there are a lot more considerations to take into account.
CTS is just about the size of a 5-series now. If it is larger, then it will be the size of the 5. Is Cadillac gonna give CTS the equipment and performance to compete against the 5?
Bigger isn't always better outside the US. It's the features that count. But you know? If GM is gonna have a separate smaller CTS for global consumption, while keeping the larger CTS for Americans only, that will work too. And GM could sell a "short wheelbase" CTS in the US to gain economies of scale. Call it a performance model. And call it a day.

Oh boy. Again you're calling it a failure before you've even seen anything. You don't know Cadillacs plans, and you're already calling their plans a failure and saying they can't compete.

Have you ever thought of the possibility that the new CTS and the new STS combined with the smaller Cadillac will be successful and have the means to compete with their competitors?

Nope. Just thinking out of the box and positing some situations. I think it is totally relevant to consider every Cadillac model a global car and to compare them to global competition. Cadillac isn't competing with just Lincoln anymore folks.
Cadillac is GM's halo. It needs to be far better than anything else GM puts out. There should be no compromises. In addition, there should be a solid strategy for taking on the international markets.

I think everyone realizes Cadillac isn't competing with just Lincoln anymore. With every new Cadillac that comes out they're just getting better and better, look at how far they've come in just the last 5 years. It's amazing how you're essentially calling the CTS a failure because it's grown in size and possibly moving up in the food chain. Again, we don't even know how much the CTS has grown or what Cadillacs plans are. We should wait and see before we say Cadillac doesn't know what they're doing....

Cadillac is a global brand now.

Yeah they are, but they're biggest market is and will be for the foreseeable future the U.S.

And more money spent on marketing each brand. And more money spent on customizing for each brand.

That's regardless of rather the vehicle is a Lambda or another model.

I didn't say they were badge engineered. I said there were too many of them. Acadia should ahve been a Chevy. Buick can then have Enclave. And Saturn can have its Outlook. Then Saab can have a short wheelbase Lambda. I would much rather have GMC revise the Envoy. But whatever. Let's jsut hope for the best here.

No, you didn't say they were badge engineered, you just said they were too similar....

I don't disagree with you that GMC should stick with truck based designs. But according to the latest plan, due to a lack of demand for mid-size truck based SUVs, the Envoy is dying. GMC needs something to compete, and a crossover, which is apparently the biggest growing segment seems like the best solution. And again, if all the Lambdas are differentiated enough, what's the problem?

I think this gets into the whole "Why does GMC exist?" debate. And I'm not gonna get into that here.

GMC exists because it's a cash cow for GM. Otherwise I'm betting it would have died with Oldsmobile.

GMC does have a use though, for those who don't like the looks of the Chevy versions, usually end up taking a look at the GMC versions.

Like for me, I much rather have a Sierra or Envoy sitting in my driveway than a Silverado or Trailblazer. They look much better.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

I'm just going to repeat what I said before, you're being unrealistic if you think you're going to get vehicles built on Lambda that don't share any parts. How much more different do you want? They don't look anything alike inside or out, they just share some parts.

IT's not a matter of sharing parts. It's a matter of making it look like you don't share parts.
What's teh best example? The Kappa roadsters. Sky and Solstice are nearly 100% parts bin cars, but to look at them and even look at the interior, they look totally different. There's that fine line, and more often than not GM just shares the parts without really making any attempt to differentiate.
ANother example... VW and Audi and Skoda. They all share parts. But they don't LOOK like they share parts.

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

Who says they can't compete? Apparently now we're saying GM has failed before they've even attempted anything....

I didn't say they have failed. I'm saying that the car is potentially being set up to fail because of X, Y, and Z reason.

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

Have you ever thought of the possibility that the new CTS and the new STS combined with the smaller Cadillac will be successful and have the means to compete with their competitors?

WHat I see is that it's gonna take 3 Cadillac models to compete with 2 models from BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Lexus/Jaguar.

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

Yeah they are, but they're biggest market is and will be for the foreseeable future the U.S.

And Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Lexus consider the US its largest market. Yet their cars don't specifically cater to American tastes. They are what they are. They are true global cars.
THe jist of my point is... Cadillac should be targetting the world not America.

Originally Posted by GMFreak8

I don't disagree with you that GMC should stick with truck based designs. But according to the latest plan, due to a lack of demand for mid-size truck based SUVs, the Envoy is dying.

Here's a novel theory. Let the truck company have trucks and build trucks and sell trucks. Kill TBlazer. Kill Ranier. Kill 9-7X. Keep Envoy and make it the best of the best. Give Chevy the Acadia.
Acadia being non-truck-based will dilute the all truck / Professional Grade image of GMC. Lovely.

But that's my own opinion.

[plane]

Originally Posted by Media

GM is still absolu...blah, blah, blah, bladey blah blah, blah
slanted gm picture #1
poorly lit gm picture #2
SUPERSIZE Toyota Media Release Picture #1
....
blah, blah, blah.

Look very carefully at what was posted.
No Escalade or Denali interior.
No Corvette interior.
No Vue interior.
No Impala SS interior.
Nothing from Saab or Cadillac.
The later Cadillac mule shots look better than anything Media posted.

GM is far better than the import-humpers will ever acknowledge and I wonder sometimes if people are paid just to do this kind of crap.

Unbelievable.

[asim]

Originally Posted by nsap

No doubt GM needs to focus on their car line as well, but the crossover market is where all companies want to be. There is no true winner in the crossover market just yet (like Toyota/Honda in the car market). This is GM's chance to get in, do things right the first time and become the crossover winner. GM isn't going to do with the Lambda's like they did the GMT-800's; let them rot on the market. V8-powered models will arrive shortly after launch (supposedly the new version of the Northstar), and two-mode hybrid models will arrive after that. Keep 'em fresh GM, they have a lot of potential.

I agree that GM focusing on crossovers is a great idea. It is what everyone is moving into. The car companies are racing to get some good examples of this segment on the market, with no one that owns the market. Like you said nsap, this is the time when GM can come in and lead the market.

[cfch3399]

You don't believe that, do you? In 6 months crossovers are going to outsell SUVs, sedans, and trucks? I'd bet money on that not happening this year, or next, or the following. We still have to see mileage numbers and crash results for Lambda. I suspect that neither will be good at first.
GM ending production of the TB made me think that only possible way car makers can engineer such a travesty is by flat out ending production of non-crossovers, forcing car buyers to buy crossovers. While GM may be foolish enough to do that, at least give up W at first, then, epsilon I,II, etc for the sake of crossovers, I don't see Hondota ending production of the Camcortima.

Originally Posted by nsap

Don't quote me on this, but I recall reading something that said by the end of this year crossovers will be the largest market in the US.

[aldw]

If Cadillac focuses primarily on the US market needs instead of the global market, it will lose and it will deserve to lose. It needs to fight the 3/5/7 series, C/E/S class and A4/A6/A8 setup the proper way, not the current BS.