NSAP Blogs: Article Conclusion, CTS Excitement

**nsap** · 06-22-2006, 01:41 PM

NSAP Blogs: Article Conclusion, CTS Excitement
By: NSAP
June 22, 2006
www.gminsidenews.com

Pictured: Saturn Outlook interior; Buick Enclave interior; GMC Acadia interior spy shot from KPG.

The Conclusion

Last week I posted an editorial piece entitled “GM’s Product To-Do List.” In a nutshell, the article explained some of the commonly complained about shortcomings found in many GM products. In the article I said, “There is a twist to this article. I’m not going to say anymore about it now, but I will once the posts in it die down.” That thread has been relatively dead lately, so let’s get to the conclusion shall we?

The whole idea for that article sparked from all of the comments that had been posted by GMI’s “balance seekers” criticizing GMI for its “lack of balance, and GM fan boys.” Maybe it’s just me, but I see GMI as more balanced than some let it on to be. EXACTLY why I wrote that article; one quick look at the posts in that thread shows that a very, very large chunk of the GM fans that reside on this site are not GM fan boys that praise every GM product to come off the line. 90% of us GM fans will admit faults regarding GM (refer to my thread for proof), and complain about it rather vocally. Sure, we’re going to argue about GM to the bloody end (or at least I will), but it’s no different that someone arguing about Toyota being so **************** perfect.

I hope this little secret motive behind my article doesn’t spark a huge argument in this thread. By no means was I trying to cause any problems, but rather prove a point. Not all of us are biased fan boys.

New CTS, New GM?

We are finally starting to see spy shots of the all-new 2008 CTS. Although I don’t know much more about the car than anyone else; from what I’ve heard; this is going to be one of the first products that is truly a great product with little to no compromises. We’ve seen that the interior lacks the corporate radio/HVAC systems and that the interior sports an all-new, good looking design. That’s a start, right?

From what Bob Lutz revealed on 60 Minutes of the new CTS, it looks to sport a very bold new look that combines the edginess of the current CTS with the fluency and elegance of the Sixteen concept car. The grille of the car looks to really be influence by the Sixteen. Insiders have said that the car will have headlamps that are by-far the most detailed in the industry; I would have to agree after seeing them on 60 Minutes. That, combined with the 3.6L VVT DOHC V6 using Direct Injection, making a good 300+ horsepower should make for one hell of a CTS. Hopefully the CTS is a sign of the full new GM. We’ve been seeing glimmers of the new GM, in products like the HHR, Impala, Solstice, Sky, and Aura. Maybe the new CTS will pull the curtain completely off.

Lambda Greatness

I've noticed quite a bit of negative comments directed at the upcoming Lambda crossovers. Mainly from people who criticize GM for producing more large vehicles. To them I say this; crossovers are the fastest growing market segment in North America; not cars. Let's look at that a little further now; GM can generally produce SUV's/large vehicle with a decent profit margin. GM is also good at building big vehicles (just look at the GMT-900's), and consumers have come to known GM for being good at that; even consumers that drive imports.

Okay, so we have high profits; good large vehicle image; overall good product. Maybe it's just me, but isn't that a given sucess? Just look at the Lambda vehicles, all three are really great products. The Outlook really has the potential to steal minivan buyers in my opinion. The only minivan quality that it lacks is sliding doors. Other than that, it has many benefits plus a third row seat that is usable for adults.

No doubt GM needs to focus on their car line as well, but the crossover market is where all companies want to be. There is no true winner in the crossover market just yet (like Toyota/Honda in the car market). This is GM's chance to get in, do things right the first time and become the crossover winner. GM isn't going to do with the Lambda's like they did the GMT-800's; let them rot on the market. V8-powered models will arrive shortly after launch (supposedly the new version of the Northstar), and two-mode hybrid models will arrive after that. Keep 'em fresh GM, they have a lot of potential.

**mgescuro** · 06-22-2006, 01:58 PM

Good article. But now that I see the Outlook and Enclove center stacks next to each other, I wanna cry.

I continue to have high hopes for CTS as a car and "GM's New Hope." However, as a product and a positioning standpoint, as well as strategically, I really have to question what the purpose of the CTS will be, now that it's larger. And perhaps it's because I continue to see the premium market as established by Mercedes and BMW. But I can't help but see that Cadillac is pulling another "let's have 2 cars compete for the same market" strategy instead of having one competent car to go for it all. It's the American mentality that "bigger is better, especially if it's low cost." For a car and brand that's the other half of GM's full-line, global lineup, (Chevy being the other half), that's a sorry excuse. Making the CTS larger, slots it against the 5-series, the GS, the M, the S-Type, the A6, the E-Class. STS has trouble competing against those cars, and now GM is expecting CTS to do it? On a global scale?

Lambda? I got no problems with the platform. I do have a major problem with the projected number of these Lambdas that will be trolling the highways. And the problem with Enclave and Acadia being sold under the same roof... which becomes even more of a problem if Acadia Denali appears later down the road. I have a problem with Chevy not getting a Lambda, while GMC has one. It would have been better if Trailblazer made the shift to Lambda, while Envoy continued on GMT-360. But now there's talk of a minivan Lambda for Chevy? And a Saab 9-6X on Lambda? That's overkill. ANd it proves to me GM has not learned a dammed thing. And it proves those critics right... GM has too many brands.

b4z · 06-22-2006, 02:13 PM

I just hope that the new CTS will have a little more refinement as far as engine and road noise.
The 3.6L has a noisy valvetrain.

And is just me or are any of you guys tired of hearing about how great the next new GM vehicle is only to be let down again and again.

Sorry for the negativity but it is ridiculous to me that GM will make improvements to some and let others languish.

How can they put the 6 speed in the V8 SRX and not in the V6?
The model that woujld benefit most from the extra gearing and probably
earn a 24-25mpg hwy rating.

**mgescuro** · 06-22-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b4z

And is just me or are any of you guys tired of hearing about how great the next new GM vehicle is only to be let down again and again.
Sorry for the negativity but it is ridiculous to me that GM will make improvements to some and let others languish.

Well... yes. It is tiring. It is repititious. And you know why it continues on GMI and in the media?
Read what you wrote below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b4z

How can they put the 6 speed in the V8 SRX and not in the V6?
The model that woujld benefit most from the extra gearing and probably
earn a 24-25mpg hwy rating.

Because GM seemingly can't put the pieces together.

Co27sskid · 06-22-2006, 02:22 PM

I don't have big prob;em with this from GM if they spread out Lamda. Look at Toyota. How many diff platforms do they have for all there cars? They use one platform and get like 5 cars/Cross overs out of it?!?!?! Look at honda. I think its a good idea imho As long as the cars drive and look diff enough, it will be opk.

Ambalanche · 06-22-2006, 02:31 PM

Good Grief! Do you guys work for the NY Times? I get so sick of all the hand wringing around here. GM is, in my opinion, the only domestic automaker with the momentum. Every GM Brand has new products doing well and I believe that will continue with everything set to debut soon. Will you like everything? No, Will you agree with everything? Hope not. Variety and opinions are the spice of life. I'm glad GM hasn't listened to all the nay-sayers and killed any more brands. If things continue the way they have recently, I believe GM will have a huge comeback on it's hands. The new products show it.
Now If they'd hurry up and build my new Z/28........

GMFreak8 · 06-22-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Good article. But now that I see the Outlook and Enclove center stacks next to each other, I wanna cry.

Why? There's a hell of a lot of differentiation between the two, it's certainly not a rebadge job at all. Yeah they share the same basic black surround design cue for the radio but even that's different in size and shape, and the same climate controls. Other than that, I'm not seeing many similarities at all. GM did a great job of making each Lambda unique, while using the same basic platform for each model. If someone were comparing these I have a feeling they wouldn't notice many similarities, not anymore than what's found on vehicles that share the same platform from other manufacturers.

Quote:

I continue to have high hopes for CTS as a car and "GM's New Hope." However, as a product and a positioning standpoint, as well as strategically, I really have to question what the purpose of the CTS will be, now that it's larger. And perhaps it's because I continue to see the premium market as established by Mercedes and BMW. But I can't help but see that Cadillac is pulling another "let's have 2 cars compete for the same market" strategy instead of having one competent car to go for it all. It's the American mentality that "bigger is better, especially if it's low cost." For a car and brand that's the other half of GM's full-line, global lineup, (Chevy being the other half), that's a sorry excuse. Making the CTS larger, slots it against the 5-series, the GS, the M, the S-Type, the A6, the E-Class. STS has trouble competing against those cars, and now GM is expecting CTS to do it? On a global scale?

Cadillac may have two vehicles that compete in the same market for awhile, but the STS is supposed to grow in size and if I remember right Cadillac is supposed to introduce another model below the CTS in size eventually.

Also, who's saying just because it grew in size slightly that's in suddenly going to start competing in a different class? Is it possible that it won't be? I think so....

Quote:

Lambda? I got no problems with the platform. I do have a major problem with the projected number of these Lambdas that will be trolling the highways. And the problem with Enclave and Acadia being sold under the same roof... which becomes even more of a problem if Acadia Denali appears later down the road. I have a problem with Chevy not getting a Lambda, while GMC has one. It would have been better if Trailblazer made the shift to Lambda, while Envoy continued on GMT-360. But now there's talk of a minivan Lambda for Chevy? And a Saab 9-6X on Lambda? That's overkill. ANd it proves to me GM has not learned a dammed thing. And it proves those critics right... GM has too many brands.

Like Co27sskid said, Toyota and Honda use one platform for 5 or 6 vehicles, why can't GM do the same? It saves development costs, and if done right (which I believe GM gets now), people won't know the difference.

Even if the Acadia gets a Denali trim line down the road, I doubt it'll be as luxurious as the Enclave. Look at the rest of the Denali line, yeah it's more upscale than the other trim lines, but it's not exactly something that can suddenly turn a vehicle into a premium luxury version. Buick and GMC also appeal to two completely different demographics. There's room for both under the same roof.

Ty_99 · 06-22-2006, 03:04 PM

In my opinion, GM is alot better then most people want to admit too. When I was working at the car dealerships I got to see, and drive many other brands. And I must say after driving Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's and so on. Quite frankly I don't see what the fuss on those cars are about. Maybe being raised on a steady diet of GM V8 and 3.1 V6's (on my thrid 3.1) I have come to expect my cars to have good low end and mid torque. This is something I find the imports lack. The example that comes to mind most is we had a 2003 RSX Type S that I took for a test drive. I was doing 60 kp/h then had to slow to 20 kp/h. I had to from 3rd gear down to 1st to keep the car from stalling, yet in a cobalt, I could have kept going in 3rd gear. I also took a Nissan Sentra SE-R out to Montreal and found that if I had the car over a 110 Kph it would suck gas back worse then my old Camaro. So I am not sold on the imports.

Sorry for my rant. But in my eyes GM's are alot better then people give credit too.

Ty_99 · 06-22-2006, 03:07 PM

I have no problems with platform sharing, that is how in today's economy u make money in the auto industry. Nothing wrong with using corporate parts, as long as GM can make them look different in each application.

jbartley · 06-22-2006, 03:11 PM

[quote=GMFreak8]
Also, who's saying just because it grew in size slightly that's in suddenly going to start competing in a different class? Is it possible that it won't be? I think so....
QUOTE]
ding!

No one ever said 3-series, 5-series, 7-series, were the gold standard? Cadillac's sport sedan resurgance more closely follows Infiniti's. The m35/45 is a bit too close to the Q sedan.

So the CTS get's almost 5 series sized and but is priced at 3-series, big deal! Unfortunately car magazines might hate that, but in the end it comes down to what the buyers want! Sure CTS might alienate a few buyers, but it's not preventing the car from being a success.

More for the money! In time Cadillac (if it deems there is a market for it) would create a smaller Cadillac. BMW and etc. don't have a second "sporty" brand like GM has Pontiac. Shouldn't Pontiac be doing the smaller RWD cars?

I'll say it again, Cadillac might be a Global Brand, but every car doesn't have to be a global vehicle. AND if it DOES, it doesn't have to occupy the SAME space in each market.

CTS is entry in US. Midsize in Europe.
Cadillac is an American Luxury Brand, NOT a european one.

BGH · 06-22-2006, 03:16 PM

For what its worth, i remember a camparo done by Road and Track where the CTS beat out the 5 series, the E Class, and the S type. Of course it was limited to V6's, and by that time the CTS was already several years old.

**mgescuro** · 06-22-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote: