New Powertrains: I'm A Believer

[ponchoman49]

As an update to all this it looks like the 2008 Grand Prix does exist as there is an ordering guide at my local dealer. Sadly the SC 3800 is being dropped but the regular 3800 series III engine is carrying on for yet another year. This and a few color shuffles are all that seems to be taking place. There was no mention of the GXP so I assume that model carries on as is. Also they had one for the 2008 Impala and it was really odd. Powertrains are carried over and the former LT3 is renamed LT2 and the old LT2 package is dropped. The 17" 5 spoke alloys from the LT3 and LTZ are being dropped and the LT2 is going to have 17" steel wheels with centers that look like alloys ala Malibu/G6 as std. Bodyside moldings are going to be optional(stupid move) and lazer blue bites the dust. Stabilitrak is now std across the board as is XM radio(weird) but LS and LT models lose there 8-way power seat for a 6-way with manual recliner. In summary, I would expect the LaCrosse and Lucerne to retain there 3800/4 speed automatic combos for yet another year and lose even more sales probably.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

I would kill off the 3400 V-6 and the 3800 V-6 along with the non VVT 3500 V-6.

I would add GDI technology to the current 3500 VVT and 3900 VVT engines. Get power up to about 250BHP for the 3500 and about 300BHP for the 3900 VVT engine.

I'm a fan of OHV, but the days of GM OHV V6 are over.

GM already has a 250 horsepower V6 (the 3.6 DOHC), and later this year the 2008 CTS comes to market with an optional GDI version of the same engine making 300 horsepower.

What benefit is there to research and develop gasoline direct injection for the pushrod V6s when they already have it on the OHC engines?

At this point, I imagine it is much cheaper for GM to just work on putting the 3.6 in every V6 application that needs 250 horsepower or better.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I'm a fan of OHV, but the days of GM OHV V6 are over.

GM already has a 250 horsepower V6 (the 3.6 DOHC), and later this year the 2008 CTS comes to market with an optional GDI version of the same engine making 300 horsepower.

What benefit is there to research and develop gasoline direct injection for the pushrod V6s when they already have it on the OHC engines?

At this point, I imagine it is much cheaper for GM to just work on putting the 3.6 in every V6 application that needs 250 horsepower or better.

Well their OHV motors can benefit from technology developed for the OHV V-8 engines such as the three valve head. I just dont see a reason to kick OHV engines considering there is that fuel economy edge with high gas prices.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

Well their OHV motors can benefit from technology developed for the OHV V-8 engines such as the three valve head. I just dont see a reason to kick OHV engines considering there is that fuel economy edge with high gas prices.

GM demonstrated the proof of concept 3-valve per cylinder XV8 concept engine in 2001.

It's been five and a half years, and they haven't even hinted that a future vehicle or engine will have that technology.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I bet we never see a 3 valve pushrod engine in mass production from GM.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

I would kill off the 3400 V-6 and the 3800 V-6 along with the non VVT 3500 V-6.

I would add GDI technology to the current 3500 VVT and 3900 VVT engines. Get power up to about 250BHP for the 3500 and about 300BHP for the 3900 VVT engine.

Chevy would only use OHV V-6 engines as being the more mainstream brand at GM. The Malibu would get the 2.4L base motor 3500 250 horse and a sport 300 horse 3900. The Impala's base engine would be the 3900 and it would pack two V-8 engines as optional engines, the Camaro would get th 3900 as the base engine as well and ofcorse all of these vehicles will use 6 speeds.

I would also use GDI on the base I-4 to get its power up to lets say 200BHP and give a 50BHP increase for each engine option.

The 3400 (Equinox) should have never been built to begin with as others have mentioned

Looks like the 3800 will go away when the current Lacrosse does (my guess 2009).

The 3900 will E-85 capable in 2008 but still stuck with 3.29 gears and 4-speed in the Impala, it should have 2.86 or 3.05 in the LT3. If not the LT3 package should be offered with the VVT 3500.

The VVT 3500 should remain standard in the Impala, a friend of mine says the 3500 in his 2006 is a "rocket" compared to the 3.4L in his 2000 and he got 30-35 MPG on a trip (better than his 2000).

Chevy needs to add a 6-speed to the Impala starting at the LT3.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I'm a fan of OHV, but the days of GM OHV V6 are over.

GM already has a 250 horsepower V6 (the 3.6 DOHC), and later this year the 2008 CTS comes to market with an optional GDI version of the same engine making 300 horsepower.

What benefit is there to research and develop gasoline direct injection for the pushrod V6s when they already have it on the OHC engines?

At this point, I imagine it is much cheaper for GM to just work on putting the 3.6 in every V6 application that needs 250 horsepower or better.

Remember that DOHC V6 engine cost more to make than OHV V6 engines and the 3500 and 3900 are essentially the same engine so there is little cost updating them. They are lighter and smaller than the DOHC and deliver better MPG. They provide competitive power/MPG for family cars and adding GDI will keep them that way.

3500 VVT GDI 265 HP
3900 VVT GDI 285 HP

The 3.6L and its 2.8L and 3.2L versions should be offered as performance options so that GM could charge for the extra the expense.

2.8L GDI 250 HP
3.2L GDI 275 HP
3.6L GDI 300 HP

[unkillsam]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Remember that DOHC V6 engine cost more to make than OHV V6 engines and the 3500 and 3900 are essentially the same engine so there is little cost updating them. They are lighter and smaller than the DOHC and deliver better MPG. They provide competitive power/MPG for family cars and adding GDI will keep them that way.

3500 VVT GDI 265 HP
3900 VVT GDI 285 HP

The 3.6L and its 2.8L and 3.2L versions should be offered as performance options so that GM could charge for the extra the expense.

2.8L GDI 250 HP
3.2L GDI 275 HP
3.6L GDI 300 HP

In the April issue of Motor Trend they quote an "insider" as saying the 3.9 OHV V6 will be standard on the Camaro with a base price of around $22,000.00 which is exactly what I predicted last year.

Still, some people are insisting that the 3.6 OHC will make it as the base engine. I have no doubt that GM might use it as part of an RS package, but I still insist the base motor will be OHV, ressurecting the 3.9 from what looked to be it's imminent doom.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by ponchoman49

As an update to all this it looks like the 2008 Grand Prix does exist as there is an ordering guide at my local dealer. Sadly the SC 3800 is being dropped but the regular 3800 series III engine is carrying on for yet another year. This and a few color shuffles are all that seems to be taking place. There was no mention of the GXP so I assume that model carries on as is. Also they had one for the 2008 Impala and it was really odd. Powertrains are carried over and the former LT3 is renamed LT2 and the old LT2 package is dropped. The 17" 5 spoke alloys from the LT3 and LTZ are being dropped and the LT2 is going to have 17" steel wheels with centers that look like alloys ala Malibu/G6 as std. Bodyside moldings are going to be optional(stupid move) and lazer blue bites the dust. Stabilitrak is now std across the board as is XM radio(weird) but LS and LT models lose there 8-way power seat for a 6-way with manual recliner. In summary, I would expect the LaCrosse and Lucerne to retain there 3800/4 speed automatic combos for yet another year and lose even more sales probably.

We are talking mainly engine here, but you bring up a good point on options - something I think has MUCH more impact on sales than OHV vs OHC or even 4-Speed vs 6-speeds.

Let see the LaCrosse has a pitiful 6-way power seat standard so let's put one in the Impala because it's cheaper. Why not put an 8-way seat into the LaCrosse to help it's sales and add Memory to the CXL level. This would be more cost effective since you would be buying more 8-way seats and the Impala/LaCrosse are made at the same plant AND you would increase retail sales of both.

Back on the engine topic, I checked this out and the 2008 Grand Prix has base 3800 4-speed (GXP still offered). The Impala keeps the same engine/trans and final drives - only change is E-85 on the 3900 (which is good) BUT where are the 6-speeds? The lack of a 6-speed for MPG on the 3500 and 3900 (at least the 3900 in the LTZ) is inexcusable.

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Remember that DOHC V6 engine cost more to make than OHV V6 engines and the 3500 and 3900 are essentially the same engine so there is little cost updating them. They are lighter and smaller than the DOHC and deliver better MPG. They provide competitive power/MPG for family cars and adding GDI will keep them that way.

3500 VVT GDI 265 HP
3900 VVT GDI 285 HP

The 3.6L and its 2.8L and 3.2L versions should be offered as performance options so that GM could charge for the extra the expense.

2.8L GDI 250 HP
3.2L GDI 275 HP
3.6L GDI 300 HP

Wont you lose the price advantage when you upgrade them?