My Vision of Cadillac (REDUX)

[crooner214]

I don't even want to begin to think about how much a 4.5 second Escalade is going to cost, even if it's car-based. Let alone development...

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis

To be more precise, the Cayenne is a crossover. And that is what mgescuro is calling for from Caddy. I'm in complete agreement with him on that...

However it should be noted that the Cayenne (and the VW Toureg) have true off road capabilities.

You sir apparently don't know what a truck is for. They aren't for heavy offroading use. Trucks are designed to haul stuff. They haul people, boats, quads, etc. A Toureg or Cayenne can't hope to touch Escalade's stuff-moving capabilities. Nor do they offer comparable interior room. Nor do they offer the in-your-face styling and non-wedged shape.

I agree with everything thing else MG has except Escalade's future. Escalade should remain a BOF Truck. That's a big part of its appeal. Its a 6000lb middle finger to the European idea of luxury. I would gladly drive an Escalade, but I'd never even consider it if it rode on a uni-body platform and didn't have a pushrod Chevy engine. It would be like every other CUV on the road. Ask Mercedes how well their big crossover mommywagons are selling. CUVs are minivans without the sliding doors.

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by crooner214

I don't even want to begin to think about how much a 4.5 second Escalade is going to cost, even if it's car-based. Let alone development...

Lingenfelter built a GMT800 Escalade EXT with an 800hp turbo small block. It ran 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, but it wasn't cheap.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

My Vision of Cadillac (Redux)
... another commentary by mgescuro ...

This is the thread I’ve been wanting to do for some time. My original vision of Cadillac has had some time to sink in, but it’s about time to revisit it and tweak as necessary.

So what exactly is Cadillac?
Quite simply, Cadillac is the premiere American luxury automaker. Cadillac established the standard for what luxury cars could and should be. Cadillac led with automobile innovations and technology. Cadillacs had unabashed style and image. They coined the phrase the “Standard of the World” and no one batted an eye because there was no way to really challenge that statement. But Cadillac lost its way. It moved towards being generic, relying on its name to keep them afloat until that name became synonymous with “old,” “unappealing,” and a “bad joke.”

Cadillac has not only lost its way, but its image as a respectable luxury brand. It is fraught with inconsistent product, and a lack of focus and direction. And due to a cash crisis at GM, it no longer has the financial means to truly realize its goal. Make no mistake, the so-called Cadillac Renaissance, that was meant to bring a new age of Cadillacs to the masses is a failure. It has failed in its goals to establish Cadillac as a leader and has failed to do anything about Cadillacs still faltering image. There is more product confusion that ever. At least before the Renaissance, we knew what to expect from Cadillac; now, its product is woefully inconsistent, with its best product not even sold in its home market. What the Renaissance has managed to do is bring forth a new design language, that for the most part, has been executed with varying stages of success.

What does Cadillac need to do? The list is endless.
First and foremost, Cadillac needs focus. What defines a modern Cadillac? What are Cadillacs opportunities in this market? What is a “global” Cadillac?

The ultimate goal for Cadillac is to build a car that matches feature for feature, style for style, luxury for luxury, amenity for amenity, image for image the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. Why? Because the S-Class is the Standard of the World. You don’t become Standard of the World by mimicking Audi or seeing if your car will out run or out corner a BMW.
You become the Standard of the World because your car is better than the Standard of the World.

As in my original “Vision of Cadillac” commentary, Cadillac needs a common baseline:

Standard on ALL Cadillacs:

• Leather Seating
• Power windows, doors, seats, headrests, trunk/hatch release/close
• OnStar
• Bluetooth, iPod and other media access
• Navigation
• Push Button Start
• Advanced forward lighting (projectors with light tubes) / Rear LED with Amber
• Choice of wood or metallic acced: Maple, Blonde Maple, Sapelli, Eucalyptus, Zebrano, Ash, carbon fiber, brushed metal
• Free, 3 years scheduled maintenance

In addition, Cadillac will remain fully customizable.

Dealership Experience

This is the most crucial element of Cadillac’s survival. Cadillac cannot be the Standard of the World when the top XLR is sold next to an Impala.
Cadillac dealerships must be standalone. And each dealership must exude sophisticated and modern luxury. Each dealership should be elegant and comfortable. The dealership should have soft leather chairs and sofas, hardwood floors, displays should have a edgy, modern, feel to emulate the Cadillac A&S look.
Customer service should be priority. They should be treated as a buyer of luxury products. Anything less than a premium experience is inappropriate. Salespeople should be well dressed and look the part of a luxury product salesperson. It is this experience where luxury and the premium nature of Cadillac needs to be brought to the forefront. Cadillac cannot be expected to be a leader in luxury if it doesn’t look, act, or behave like a luxury brand.
Showroom floor should showcase and highlight the Various Cadillacs Sedans, coupes/roadsters, CUV/SUV. This way, you don't have a CTS sitting next to an XLR. You get a contiguous experience.

The Vehicle Lineup

Coupes and Sedans

Compact Luxury (BLS)
This car is the makes up one-third of the core Cadillac lineup.
Not only is it a compact sports sedan, it manages to maintain dignified luxury, instead of the spartan, technical look of the 3-series.
This class should have a sedan, coupe, wagon, convertible, and V-series.

Mid-sized Luxury (CTS)
This car is the next third of the core Cadillac lineup.
Taking the current CTS as a baseline, luxury and amenities need to be improved to match E-Class. Particular care to traditional Cadillac comfort is needed. However, this car will run with the 5-series.
This class should have a sedan, coupe, wagon, convertible, and V-series.

Full-sized Luxury (Fleetwood)
This car is the next third of the core Cadillac lineup.
It replaces STS and DTS from the current stable. This cars amenities should harken back to the true luxury Cadillacs of old. Name the amenity? This car has it. It offers uncompromising luxury and sophistication. It should offer the performance and sophistication of the future Jaguar XJ but remain relatively affordable (like the XJ). And it can compete with the S-Class. But it isn’t an S-Class competitor.
This class should have a sedan and coupe and V-series.

Full-sized Luxury (S-Class and Flying Spur/ConGT Competitor)
This is the next product extension for Cadillac. The S-Class competitor. Not only does it offer uncompromising luxury and sophistication, it is the technological tour de force and platform for innovation and first-of-its-kind application. There is nothing you can’t get in this car.
This class should have a sedan and coupe and V-series.

Roadsters

Compact Roadster (SLK Competitior)
A small 2-seat roadster. Great to throw around corners and for weekend jaunts. A good entry level for individuals who want a small, fun roadster, but doesn’t have the cash for a full blown roadster. It is more luxury than sport, but it will have a solid ride and bite into corners nevertheless.
This class will have base and V-series.

Luxury Roadster (XLR)
It continues to share its existence with Corvette. But luxury amenities and technology and customization are taken up a few notches. There is no mistaking XLR for Corvette. Its luxury and sophistication distinguish it from its brash brother. XLR exists to compete with the SL at all levels.
This class will have base and V-series and “Super V” Series. The base will have a V6. It is expected that Super-V will have at bare minimum a Twin-Turbo V12 of 750+ HP.

Exotic Roadster (Cien)
Completely custom vehicle. Production is outsourced to a manufacturer that will hand-build it to order. Target competition are the Italian supercars. Car is expected to run with Veyron and Porsche Supercar.
Base engine is the “Super V” engine found in XLR. Top engine at 850+HP.

Crossovers

Compact Crossover (BRX)
This is the GLK and X3 competitor. It’s a smaller 5-passenger luxury crossover. Standard RWD biased AWD. Great for navigating smaller streets in Europe and American metropolitan areas.

Midsized Crossover (SRX)
This is the X5 and ML competitor. It’s a 7-passed luxury crossover. Standard RWD biased AWD.

Fullsized Crossover (Escalade)
Yes. The Escalade becomes a crossover. It retains its large proportions, but is more efficient about it. It has uncompromising luxury and performance. It’s main target is still Range Rover, and will offer a smaller, 5-passenger version.
Escalade will have a luxury version and a Sport version. And it will have a V-series.

Vehicle Tiers

Platinum Edition:
Custom Order Only
Comprises of: Top Engine Choice + Top Audio/Speaker combo + Suede Headliner + Suede Dash + Custom PE Only Rims + Improved Leather on Seats + Suede Seat Inserts + Custom PE Interior Badging + Silk carpet
Special Key Fob, specific to Platinum Edition -- Made with platinum

Emerald Edition:
Dual-Mode Hybrid System (or EFlex) available across the board.
Special Key Fob, specific to Emerald Edition -- Made with emeralds

V-Series:
All V-series will do 0-60 under 4.5 seconds
Interior accents adds choice of Carbon Fiber or black-dyed wood.
Special, bolstered sport/performance seat option
Custom V-series rims
Custom V-series interior badging
Special Key Fob, specific to V-series -- Made of Carbon Fiber and Gold

-----

So there you have it. My Vision of Cadillac. (Again)

Hi mgescuro,

I saw value in your first vision and I see value in your revised Vision of Cadillac and support the positive aspects of these ideas. From product to dealership enhancements, I see these suggestions as a progressive transition for Cadillac and specifically in the United States where some dealerships are among the oldest.

That said, we simply do not see the same Cadillac as I do today from a luxury buyer’s perspective, both from a product and dealership experience. From a Cadillac critic or reviewer perspective, I can easily understand the wide ranging discussions and opinions. In fact your comments were my impression of Cadillac in 2000 and that is why I selected another luxury brand for purchase. I have said this before and for me it is more evident today than ever, there is something very unique and special about Cadillac today. It may simply be the elegant and powerful Art and Science design theme of Cadillac cars and trucks. Or simply my Cadillac owner experience with the Cadillac STS V8 and XLR being so positive, it creates a formidable obstacle for any other luxury brand model when I perform a comparative evaluation that commands the other luxury brand models to measure up to my requirements as Cadillac has. As a luxury buyer and owner, I rank Cadillac very praiseworthy today. And the fact is I did not have that perception of Cadillac on my initial review in 2000. Now fast forward to 2008, to the Cadillac XLR event and with this experience I find no other luxury brand I would prefer over Cadillac today for purchase.


JLM

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I like the line-up mostly, I too believe it's too Coupe heavy for the 21st Century. Want a smaller roadster perhaps dirived from the SKY/SOLSTICE PLATFORM, the XLR replaced by the Cien mid-engine. And a Cadillac Ultimatim ULS, about 2020.

In order to to this the DT7 replacement for the STS/DTS must be a hit, cash cow, runaway success. The revenue that must come in would have to be enormous. Also the CTS update would also have to be a runaway success.

I like the idea of scaling down the Escalade, not taking away any luxuries of features, but placing it on a lighter more efficient platform, so the MPG and range could be much better than todays Escalade is.

I agree fully with each and every point you made there!

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

I have said this before and for me it is more evident today than ever, there is something very unique and special about Cadillac today. It may simply be the elegant and powerful Art and Science design theme of Cadillac cars and trucks. Or simply my Cadillac owner experience with the Cadillac STS V8 and XLR being so positive, it creates a formidable obstacle for any other luxury brand model when I perform a comparative evaluation that commands the other luxury brand models to measure up to my requirements as Cadillac has. As a luxury buyer and owner, I rank Cadillac very praiseworthy today. And the fact is I did not have that perception of Cadillac on my initial review in 2000. Now fast forward to 2008, to the Cadillac XLR event and with this experience I find no other luxury brand I would prefer over Cadillac today for purchase.

Your experience is not mine. And the fact that there is this dichotomy between our experiences shows the "cracks in the armor at Cadillac."
My family has purchased Cadillacs in the past. So I have seen and experienced firsthand the complete collapse of Cadillac. And my continued experience at regional Cadillac dealerships is borderline reprehensible. The service is simply without class and distinction and certainly not on the level of regional Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar dealerships. There is only so much patience I'm willing to dole out. And frankly, if I'm willing to spend $65,000 cash on a car, I shouldn't be treated in such a manner.

GM should be embarrassed and ashamed of San Francisco Bay Area Cadillac dealerships.

Even if Cadillac had the product to entice me back into their dealerships, I would think long and hard about giving them my business. The fact that our experiences are so night and day, should raise flags at GM. Or I expect far more from a supposed purveyor of "luxury" goods.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Your experience is not mine. And the fact that there is this dichotomy between our experiences shows the "cracks in the armor at Cadillac."
My family has purchased Cadillacs in the past. So I have seen and experienced firsthand the complete collapse of Cadillac. And my continued experience at regional Cadillac dealerships is borderline reprehensible. The service is simply without class and distinction and certainly not on the level of regional Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar dealerships. There is only so much patience I'm willing to dole out. And frankly, if I'm willing to spend $65,000 cash on a car, I shouldn't be treated in such a manner.

GM should be embarrassed and ashamed of San Francisco Bay Area Cadillac dealerships.

Even if Cadillac had the product to entice me back into their dealerships, I would think long and hard about giving them my business. The fact that our experiences are so night and day, should raise flags at GM. Or I expect far more from a supposed purveyor of "luxury" goods.

mgescuro,

I would never suggest or imply you should purchase anything that does not meet your requirements. I believe you when say your dealership experience has not met your requirements.

I have had experiences from all of the luxury and exotic brands in my area and they have not met my standards in one area on another. No brand I evaluated has been perfect, nor has any car I have evaluated, they all have advantages in one area or another. That said, Cadillac's STS V8/STS-V, CTS- V and XLR/XLR-V for 2009 are the superior design when I compare to Mercedes-Benz's SL, BMW's 5 Series and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharged, XK/XK Supercharged for my requirements.


I well understood that Cadillac has work to refresh and reduce its number of dealerships, which has begun in my area with two Cadillac franchises closing down.

My impression of Cadillac when I compare them to other luxury brands in my area is higher today, based on Cadillac's products and services. Based on your view that is not your situation and that is Cadillac's loss in my view.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

I have had experiences from all of the luxury and exotic brands in my area and they have not met my standards in one area on another. No brand I evaluated has been perfect, nor has any car I have evaluated, they all have advantages in one area or another. That said, Cadillac's STS V8/STS-V, CTS- V and XLR/XLR-V for 2009 are the superior design when I compare to Mercedes-Benz's SL, BMW's 5 Series and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharged, XK/XK Supercharged for my requirements.

My problem with Cadillac in my region is that I've been to all the other luxury dealerships in the area, and Cadillac just doesn't match up. IN fact, I'd put Cadillac slightly above the sneery Honda dealership I visited. And that's not a complement either. Nor do I want to drive 30 miles + bridge toll to find a better one.

NO brand is perfect. But in order to sell cars and an image, the brand needs to meet certain standards of the segment. And from what I can see, it's just too inconsistent.

GM needs to realize that the Bay Area is one of the wealthiest regions in the country. A luxury and more upscale lifestyle is almost de rigeur here. If GM's luxury car brand doesn't have a luxury or upscale image here, then you're simply not going to sell or make any impact whatsoever. No one here is fooled by the combo Chevy-Cadillac dealerships.


Cadillac's products are improving. But re-establishing oneself in the luxury segment goes beyond product. And I'm still finding the product as inconsistent and lacking as the dealership base.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

My problem with Cadillac in my region is that I've been to all the other luxury dealerships in the area, and Cadillac just doesn't match up. IN fact, I'd put Cadillac slightly above the sneery Honda dealership I visited. And that's not a complement either.

NO brand is perfect. But in order to sell cars and an image, the brand needs to meet certain standards of the segment. And from what I can see, it's just too inconsistent.

GM needs to realize that the Bay Area is one of the wealthiest regions in the country. A luxury and more upscale lifestyle is almost de rigeur here. If GM's luxury car brand doesn't have a luxury or upscale image here, then you're simply not going to sell or make any impact whatsoever. No one here is fooled by the combo Chevy-Cadillac dealerships.


Cadillac's products are improving. But re-establishing oneself in the luxury segment goes beyond product. And I'm still finding the product as inconsistent and lacking as the dealership base.

mgescuro,

I think we agree, product presentation and image are important factors in luxury cars as with any luxury sales and service experience. However, in every luxury buying situation it depends on the luxury buyers requirements and the value placed on the various aspects of the luxury purchase. Based on your information I understand your comments regarding dealerships in your area.

However, I cannot agree with your opinion regarding the Cadillac STS and XLR models due to I did compare these Cadillac models with my short list from MB, Jaguar and BMW. Based on my requirements I concluded all of the luxury brand models are competitive with each other, but Cadillac's style and design of the Cadillac CTS, STS and XLR are more compelling luxury cars and my purchase preference.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

I think we agree, product presentation and image are important factors in luxury cars as with any luxury sales and service experience. However, in every luxury buying situation it depends on the luxury buyers requirements and the value placed on the various aspects of the luxury purchase. Based on your information I understand your comments regarding dealerships in your area.

Of course. But don't you think that would potentially bode ill for future dealings with the dealership? Primarily the service department? It certainly doesn't cast a good light on the dealership as a whole. So why would you want to deal with them for 4 years or 100,000 miles?

A few salesmen at high end clothing boutiques in the City know me by name. The Jaguar and Mercedes salespeople know me by name -- and I haven't bought a single product from them -- yet. I'd be lucky if the Cadillac salesman doesn't blow cigarette smoke in my face again.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

However, I cannot agree with your opinion regarding the Cadillac STS and XLR models due to I did compare these Cadillac models with my short list from MB, Jaguar and BMW. Based on my requirements I concluded all of the luxury brand models are competitive with each other, but Cadillac's style and design of the Cadillac CTS, STS and XLR are more compelling luxury cars and my purchase preference.

I respect the XLR as a roadster. I don't agree with the cosmetic changes, nor am I too thrilled by the non-updates to the interior. It would still be on my list, were I needing a roadster in that price class. It would be between XLR and XK. With the edge going to the XK -- though I'm not too thrilled with some of the interior plastics and the odd plastic add-on on the side view mirrors.
STS.... well.... the best thing I can say about STS is that the interior changes for this model cycle are an improvement. But it's not nearly enough.

If Cadillac can give me a CTS with STS-V materials and STS/STS-V technology... then we can talk. I just need to find a Cadillac dealership that I'm willing to have a 4 year or 100,000 mile relationship with. The closest Cadillac that I've seen that comes closest in terms of inerior packaging is CTS Coupe.... but it's a Coupe. And I want a sedan.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Of course. But don't you think that would potentially bode ill for future dealings with the dealership? Primarily the service department? It certainly doesn't cast a good light on the dealership as a whole. So why would you want to deal with them for 4 years or 100,000 miles?

A few salesmen at high end clothing boutiques in the City know me by name. The Jaguar and Mercedes salespeople know me by name -- and I haven't bought a single product from them -- yet. I'd be lucky if the Cadillac salesman doesn't blow cigarette smoke in my face again.



I respect the XLR as a roadster. I don't agree with the cosmetic changes, nor am I too thrilled by the non-updates to the interior. It would still be on my list, were I needing a roadster in that price class. It would be between XLR and XK. With the edge going to the XK -- though I'm not too thrilled with some of the interior plastics and the odd plastic add-on on the side view mirrors.
STS.... well.... the best thing I can say about STS is that the interior changes for this model cycle are an improvement. But it's not nearly enough.

If Cadillac can give me a CTS with STS-V materials and STS/STS-V technology... then we can talk. I just need to find a Cadillac dealership that I'm willing to have a 4 year or 100,000 mile relationship with. The closest Cadillac that I've seen that comes closest in terms of inerior packaging is CTS Coupe.... but it's a Coupe. And I want a sedan.

mgescuro,

I believe we agree based on your dealership experience for your area. However, my Cadillac dealership experience has been superb.

But I am so spoiled by Cadillac's advance features on the STS and XLR compared to Jaguar's XF/XK Convertible and Mercedes-Benz's SL. Plus Cadillac's style and design is simply the best for my tastes. Jaguar's style and design is beautiful to my eyes as well and maybe a future model year will offer some of the features I have already become accustom to having available in my luxury cars.

JLM