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#31 (permalink) |
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5.3 Liter LS4 V8
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Can't have Bluetooth; gotta get people to pay for the On Star phone service. It's a miracle any GM cars have real nav systems for the same reason.
Plus, there's no way GM will build 17 different Cadillacs. That's just crazy-Chevy barely has 17 different models. |
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#32 (permalink) | |
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5.3 Liter LS4 V8
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
My local Cadillac dealer is a Buick/Pontiac/GMC/Cadillac. In any case, shutting down dealers means fewer sales, not more. |
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#34 (permalink) | |
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6.0 Liter Vortec V8
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Drives: 2001 Chevy Cavalier
Posts: 1,587
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
Everything B-class and smaller could be built on the next-gen Kappa platform (including the A-class cars). Everything else besides the Escalade can be built on Zeta, aside from that mid-engined exotic, which would require a new platform. The Escalade continues on the GMT-900 platform. Four platforms. That's it. Yes, Zeta is that versatile. |
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#35 (permalink) | |
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6.0 Liter Vortec V8
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,636
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
__________________
Watch The 4400 or suffer the fate of a terrible future. I'm a new VW Whore and owner of a 71 VW Super Beetle .
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#36 (permalink) | |
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3.8 Liter Supercharged V6
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 546
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
As for MG's vision of Cadillac, it's spot on and I couldn't written it better myself. If Cadillac is going to butt heads with BMW, Audi and DCX, it needs to do it on the same battlefields.
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-Z |
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#37 (permalink) | |
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4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Galactica CIC
Drives: 2005 Chevy Malibu
Posts: 2,486
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
The same potential problem arises from Zeta. Right now, Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac and Chevy are all getting Zeta cars. If Olds were alive today they would get one too probably (and the Aurora would have been what it always should have been, but that's for another post). Should Opel decide to change it's mind and go chasing after the executive segment again with a new RWD Omega, then Saturn will get one too. The question then becomes how do you keep the Impala from overlapping with the G8(Grand Prix) from overlapping from the Roadmaster(Statesman or whatever they call it) from overlapping with the RWD DTS. Eventually you reach a point where no matter how flexible the platform is, you can only build so many derivatives of it before they start to compet with each other. Cadillac has Sigma II exclusively, which serves as the underpinnings for CTS and hopefully the STS/SRX should they live to see a new generation beyond this current(SRX)/upcoming(STS) MCE. The fact is that Sigma II is just way to big to carry a 3-series competitor. Alpha could solve that problem, and is probably under development right now in Australia because Holden wants to build a new generation of Torana. For the business case to make sense Cadillac would have to share platform components if not the entire platform to reduce costs with Holden/Pontiac (remember they are aligned now much the way Saturn will become Opel). Cadillac desperately needs a 3 Series/C-Class (physical) size competitor as well as car that can compete with the S-Class/7 Series/A8. It also needs something else and different. Back in its heyday, Cadillac also competed with Rolls-Royce and Bentley and there is no reason they shouldn't today. A ULS(dump the alpha numerics for everyone's sake), Fleetwood car should be approved. The one thing that makes me really sad and angry is Cadillac has access to the platforms already to build some of the cars it needs to build. There is also no reason that a mini-XLR shouldn't be built off of the NG (or current generation) Kappa platform. There is no reason for the current XLR to still have the lackluster interior it has. There is no reason a CLS Coupe couldn't be built off of Sigma. All three of these enterprises could be undertaking with a minimum of capital expense. GM just needs to do it.
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"The best committee is the committee of one" -Bob Lutz Last edited by sigma : 03-19-2007 at 12:32 PM. |
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#38 (permalink) |
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1.8 Liter ECOTEC
Join Date: Nov 2005
Drives: 04' tahoe
Posts: 56
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
I truly agree with what you have said. Cadillac SHOULD cover every market down to around 30K. Like others have said MB and BMW have very small cars and MB has UPS trucks, it doesnt seem to hurt them. The idea about the platinum and emrald keys is great, just like the gold keys were. This is a bit radical, but what about Cadillac spinning off. Dont get me wrong I love GM but I just don't think they can handle the kind of investments that need to be made in Cadillac. Caddy could become a stand alone company, but continue using GM platforms ect. I have no idea how that might work but just something I have been thinking about.
slade'man Stay classy GM |
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#39 (permalink) |
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Level I Members
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Drives: Oldsmobile Aurora 4.0
Posts: 1,435
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
I agree on most, but that is too many models for them to execute them well. They should have no wagons at all, and a coupe only on the $35k car. Big coupes don't sell that well, and they have the XLR for the upper end to compete with the XK8. I don't think Cadillac needs 5 choices of wood, 3 would work, and Navigation doesn't need to be standard, that is a feature I would never use, so I wouldn't want to pay for it. The dealerships don't need to be ultra dealers that are first class, I think it would be bad if they portray too much of an upper class snob-like atmosphere. The other problem with super elegant dealers is that it costs money, and you can't raise the price of the cars more, they are getting killed with their lower prices already. Cadillac does need fewer dealerships however. There is a Cadillac-Subaru dealer about an hour from me that is really run down, stuff like that has to go.
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#40 (permalink) | |
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5.3 Liter Vortec V8
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ
Drives: '56 Pontiac Starchief Hardtop
'01 Ford Escape
Posts: 1,475
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
ISSUES: -Major competitors largely concerned with only making luxury vehicles. BMW, Mercedes (Chrysler isn't truly integrated) are stand-alone brands. -Lexus does not have this deep of a lineup, nor does Audi. What is the leading luxury brand in the U.S? -GM does not have the funds in the near term and, as someone mentioned earlier, would have to eliminate brands such as Buick and possibly even Saab to continually support this expanded brand vision financially and under the GM umbrella without overlap. Ideally Buick would just die and everyone would go to Cadillac, but that won't happen. I think Cadillac needs a BTS and variants, CTS and variants, STS and variants, and a ULS and variants. Throw in the XLR, SRX, BRX, Escalade and a smaller roadster on Sigma and that's about as complete as it needs to be. Let BMW and Mercedes fight over little niche markets such as R class. Again, what is the leading luxury brand in the U.S.?
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General Motors Today-Tomorrow-Always
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#41 (permalink) | |
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3.9 Liter V6
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles Area
Drives: '08 Mazda CX-9 Sport
'07 Mazda3 Grand Touring
Posts: 855
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
Otherwise, nice writeup. I agree with most of it, but especially with dumping the current DTS. Tantalize the DTS's retail buyers with a better, more distinguised STS. Let the fleet and livery business go to Lincoln... it's nice volume, but I don't think it helps move Cadillac up and forward. |
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#42 (permalink) | ||
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GMI Staff Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 24,248
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Quote:
I assume you skimmed the entire post, cause in italics, I said this was a 10 year plan. Quote:
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![]() 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero 1995 Mercedes C280 1994 Jaguar XJ6 ...when all hope is gone, you know sad songs say so much...My Vision of Cadillac My Vision of Cadillac (REDUX) ![]()
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#43 (permalink) |
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4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Heart of Europe
Posts: 2,204
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
I would only axe the hatch, Cadillac doesn't need a premium Aveo neither in the States nor in Europe. GM should produce a more luxurious small car, but they have SAAB to do it! The rest of the line-up is perfect Mgescuro, good work!
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#44 (permalink) | |
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GMI Staff Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 24,248
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
Quote:
But suffice it to say, I'd have to prolong DTS' existence for a while, while BLS was prepped and gathered enough steam to make a significant volume impact to allow DTS to die and transfer over the "Executive Sedan" over to Buick. But the last thing to arrive would be the U and the Z at year 10/11.
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![]() 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero 1995 Mercedes C280 1994 Jaguar XJ6 ...when all hope is gone, you know sad songs say so much...My Vision of Cadillac My Vision of Cadillac (REDUX) ![]()
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#45 (permalink) |
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6.2 Liter Vortec V8
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,511
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Re: My Vision of Cadillac
CARS
ATH/ATH4/ATH-V -- A-Series Touring Hatch (Europe, Asian, African markets only) -- $25,000-40,000 -- Sub-Compact Hatch -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, EcoTec -- HP: 120-250HP -- Main Competitor(s): Audi A3 Unnecessary... replaced by Pontiac "2002", the car BMW forgot how to build. Solstice powertrains, the turbo will blow away the 325, which is most 3-Series. BTS/BTS4/BTS-V -- B-Series Touring Sedan (Global) -- $30,000-50,000 -- Compact Sedan -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, EcoTec, HF w/ DI -- HP: 140-420HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 3, Mercedes C, Audi A4, Lexus IS, Infiniti G, Jaguar X-Type Unneccessary as long as Saab is around, they have this covered. Instead of wasting time with this, work on Saab... or get rid of it. BTE/BTE4 -- B-Series Touring Estate (Global) -- $30,000-40,000 -- Compact Wagon -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, EcoTec, HF w/ DI -- HP: 140-420HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 3 Touring, Mercedes C, Audi A4 Avant Unneccessary, Saab also has this covered. CTS/CTS4/CTS-V -- C-Series Touring Sedan (Global) -- $39,000-62,000 -- Mid-Sized Sedan -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, HF w/ DI, LS-7 -- HP: 180-520HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 5, Mercedes E, Audi A6, Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Jaguar XF CTS-V needs to put a beat down on the Germans, not play their game. CTC/CTC4/CTC Cabriolet/CTC4 Cabriolet/CTC-V -- C-Series Touring Coupe (Global) -- $43,000-68,000 -- Mid-Sized Coupe and 2+2 convertible -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, HF w/ DI, LS-7 -- HP: 180-520HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 6, Mercedes CLK, Audi A5 See Above CTE/CTE4 -- C-Series Touring Estate (Global) -- $50,000-60,000 -- Mid-sized Wagon -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, HF w/ DI -- HP: 180-520HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 5, Mercedes E, Audi A6 Avant Nice in theory, But I don't see a market for a V-Wagon STS/STS4/STS-V -- S-Series Touring Sedan (Global) -- $65,000-100,000 -- Full-sized Coupe-like Sedan -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, UltraV8 -- HP: 280-625HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes CLS, Maserati Quattroporte FTS/FTS4/FTS-V -- F-Series Touring Sedan (Global) -- $70,000-100,000 -- Full-sized Sedan -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, HF w/ DI, UltraV8 -- HP: 280-625HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW 7, Mercedes S (Low end), Audi A8, Jaguar XJ, Lexus LS, VW Phaeton, Infiniti Q Whole F line is unnecessary, STS, etc. has this covered. STS needs to grow... it's too close to the CTS now. FTC/FTC4/FTC-V -- F-Series Touring Coupe (Global) -- $70,000-100,000 -- Full-sized Coupe -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, UltraV8 -- HP: 280-625HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes CL Unneccessary... See Above ULS/UTS/ULS4/UTS4/UTS-V -- U-Series Luxury/Touring Sedan (Global) -- $120,000-200,000 -- Full-Sized Personal Limo Sedan -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: UltraV8, Northstar XV12 (or comparable) -- HP: 450-700HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes S (high end), Bentley Flying Spur UTC/UTC4/UTC-V -- U-Series Touring Coupe (Global) -- $120,000-200,000 -- Full-Sized Personal Limo Coupe -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: UltraV8, Northstar XV12 (or comparable) -- HP: 450-700HP -- Main Competitor(s): Bentley Continental GT GLR/GLR-V -- G-Series Luxury Roadster (Global) -- $40,000-50,000 -- Compact Luxury Roadster -- RWD -- Engine: HF w/ DI, UltraV8 -- HP: 255-380HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes SLK, Porsche Boxster Unneccessary... all Cadillac needs is a CTS convertible. XLR/XLR-V -- X-Series Luxury Roadster (Global) -- $80,000-110,000 -- Mid-sized Luxury Roadster -- RWD -- Engine: UltraV8 -- HP: 380-625HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes SL, Jaguar XK, Porsche 911, Lexus SC ZER -- Z-Series Exotic Roadster (Global) -- $130,000 -- Exotic Roadster -- RWD -- Engine: Mid-engine, V12 -- HP: 750HP -- Main Competitor(s): Mercedes SLR, Audi R8, Lexus LF-A, Porsche 911 GT3 Unnecessary... XLR is exotic enough. Just keep improving it. CROSSOVER/SUV BRX/BRX4 -- B-Series Reconfigurable Crossover (Global) -- $32,000-40,000 -- 5-seat, compact crossover -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, EcoTec, HF w/ DI -- HP: 140-280HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW X3, Mercedes GLK, Audi Q5 Unneccessary... Move an improved Torrent to GMC. It and the VUE Redline can handle this. SRX/SRX4 -- S-Series Reconfigurable Crossover (Global) --$40,000-52,000 -- 5/7-seat, mid-sized crossover -- RWD / AWD -- Engine: Diesel, HF w/ DI, UltraV8 -- HP: 210-380HP -- Main Competitor(s): BMW X5, Mercedes R, Mercedes ML, Audi Q7, Lexus GX, Lexus RX Escalade/Escalade4/ESV/ESV4/EXT/EXT4 -- (Global - Escalade & Escalade4 Only) -- $58,000-100,000 -- 6/8-seat, full-sized sport-utility vehicle -- RWD / AWD / 4WD option -- Engine: UltraV8 -- HP: 420HP -- Main Competitor(s): Land Rover Range Rover, Mercedes GL, Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator Don't mess with success.... Get rid of the Ultra V8 and put a proper truck engine in there. Addition: DTS/DTS4/DTS-V Sedan - US only -- $40000 to $60000 -- Full sized Zeta Based Sedan -- AWD option -- Engines: Ultra V8, LS-7 (V-Series) -- Main Competition - There is none. Powerful traditional American luxury car with a Big motor, Big chrome and Big Wheels. V will be an instant classic. Telling 30% of your customer base to pack sand is bad business. Plus, something has to bring the $$$ if you want a ULS. Also, all non-Diesel Cadillacs will offer 2-mode hybrid versions.
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TiresomeOverratedYawnmobilesOrTediousAppliances Progress happens when all the factors that make for it are ready, and then it is inevitable. - Henry Ford on the Volt. Last edited by eaton53 : 03-19-2007 at 01:17 PM. |
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