My Vision of Cadillac

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

No. Not out of touch. Cadillac is going to need to compete in this market eventually because it certainly won't be Chevy to do so.
911 GT3 and even GT2 are perfect competition for my proposed Cien/ZER.

OMG do you even know what these vehicles are? LMAO you are a complete joke for gods sake.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

OMG do you even know what these vehicles are? LMAO you are a complete joke for gods sake.

Yes. I'm well aware of the nature of these cars.
So what.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Yes. I'm well aware of the nature of these cars.
So what.

You would drive Cadillac into the ground making vehicles that do not make sense one bit.

Cadillac should make a SLR competitor, they should make a R8 competitor, GT2 competitor makes some sense as well. However Cadillac should never leave the luxury market to aim for something such as the 911 GT3. You should go and read up on the GT3 and look at the pictures before you suggest something so dumb to a Forum that will likely just agree with you because you are well respected. Cars do not sell based on the respect level of the people that make them, Ive never seen anyone buy a Porsche because they greatly respect Wolfgang Durheimer.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

You would drive Cadillac into the ground making vehicles that do not make sense one bit.

Cadillac should make a SLR competitor, they should make a R8 competitor, GT2 competitor makes some sense as well. However Cadillac should never leave the luxury market to aim for something such as the 911 GT3. You should go and read up on the GT3 and look at the pictures before you suggest something so dumb to a Forum that will likely just agree with you because you are well respected. Cars do not sell based on the respect level of the people that make them, Ive never seen anyone buy a Porsche because they greatly respect Wolfgang Durheimer.

Ummm.. you're not making any sense. Too much eggnog?
Who said anything about Cadillac leaving the luxury market?

I suggest you revisit what the GT3 is now... because it's got A/C...

Oh, before this goes any further, remember, Cadillac does have a history of racing.

[CobaltSScrazy]

good point M, I wish I could email this to Ed Welburn (Sp?) and Rich Waggoner, I wish they would just invest the coin to make the vehicles Cadillac is worthy and should be creating!

CobatlSScrazy

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

No. Not out of touch. Cadillac is going to need to compete in this market eventually because it certainly won't be Chevy to do so.
911 GT3 and even GT2 are perfect competition for my proposed Cien/ZER.

Happy Holidays mgescuro,

I would not see Cadillac's Cien's target segment Porsche's 911 GT3 or GT2 it simply is not exotic enough. The performance is certainly there, which makes it prime for Chevrolet’s Corvette ZR1 or Z06.

If Cadillac is really going to enter into this segment, the competition cannot be the look and feel of only racing performance specifications. It must offer more in its design. Cadillac's design, first and foremost must be absolutely stunning. Nothing liked the warmed over styling such as Porsche' 911 or Chevrolet's Corvette, it simply is too common of a design.

Cadillac's racing expertise can certainly aid in the design of an ultimate performance luxury exotic GT, but there are criteria that must be clearly luxurious, not unlike the design difference between Cadillac's XLR/XLR-V and Corvette/Z06 today. Both are designed to perform in its relative segments, Cadillac's XLR/XLR-V compared to Mercedes-Benz's SL550/SL55 AMG, and Jaguar's XK/XKR and Aston Martin Vantage to some degree. And Chevrolet’s Covette/Z06 to Porsche’s 911.

For Cadillac Cien, it should not be about building a better GT3 per say, but creating an ultimate performance exotic that has the designed race car abilities with GT luxury qualities. But most of all it must be a work of art to behold, like nothing else on the road, it cannot be common looking.

Cadillac in my view, should not only be a race car for the streets, but the ultimate exotic with advance racing technology, along with advance active chassis systems integration that ensures performance and relative comfort, advance communication features for driver and car, advance acoustics with the ability to allow the enjoyment of the sounds of performance driving and when desired bring the acoustic environment to levels to enable the enjoyment of your favorite tunes. Advance compounds that allow impossible shapes and designs that cannot be conformed from mere metal. Porsche is simply to narrow in its design for Cadillac to imitate or target, let Chevrolet meet that challenge, Cadillac designs should be beyond Porsche.

JLM

[ctsmo]

maybe similar to an Audi R8?

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by ctsmo

maybe similar to an Audi R8?

Happy Holidays ctsmo,

That may be possible, but I have not reviewed the Audi R8, so I cannot be sure if it really reaches the level of sophistication, performance and luxury Cadillac should compare with. A stellar product from all the reviews, but I simply have not reviewed it yet. For my tastes the styling is not that appealing, simply different, not stunning.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Happy Holidays mgescuro,

Happy Holidays!

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

I would not see Cadillac's Cien's target segment Porsche's 911 GT3 or GT2 it simply is not exotic enough. The performance is certainly there, which makes it prime for Chevrolet’s Corvette ZR1 or Z06.

I would say the nearly $200,000 price tag of the GT2 makes it "exotic enough."
Just because it's a "trim level" of the more "predestrian" 911 doesn't mean it can't be exotic....

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

If Cadillac is really going to enter into this segment, the competition cannot be the look and feel of only racing performance specifications. It must offer more in its design. Cadillac's design, first and foremost must be absolutely stunning. Nothing liked the warmed over styling such as Porsche' 911 or Chevrolet's Corvette, it simply is too common of a design.

Yes.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

For Cadillac Cien, it should not be about building a better GT3 per say, but creating an ultimate performance exotic that has the designed race car abilities with GT luxury qualities. But most of all it must be a work of art to behold, like nothing else on the road, it cannot be common looking.

Yes. And Cien should run with the GT2 and GT3. That means at the very least Corvette Z06 performance.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Happy Holidays!
[/color]

I would say the nearly $200,000 price tag of the GT2 makes it "exotic enough."
Just because it's a "trim level" of the more "predestrian" 911 doesn't mean it can't be exotic....
[/color]

Yes.

Yes. And Cien should run with the GT2 and GT3. That means at the very least Corvette Z06 performance.

Hi gescuro,

Porsche's price is not at question, for Porsche and race fans the performance is worth its price for some, but the common design of the 911, is an everyday event, nothing special. The same applies to Chevrolets's Corvette design, again nothing wrong in it, but simply to common for my tastes. It is not an exotic design, just a revised 911, great performance and nothing more over the base 911.

Simply said, if Cadillac built the Cien, the Corvette or 911 would not even be considered for comparison for my purchase, the Cien's design is that powerful to me.

JLM

[eaton53]

For Cadillac Cien, it should not be about building a better GT3 per say, but creating an ultimate performance exotic that has the designed race car abilities with GT luxury qualities. But most of all it must be a work of art to behold, like nothing else on the road, it cannot be common looking.

I agree about the Cien.... that car is amazing. Porsches are a big yawn by comparison.

If they had built the Cien exactly to the concept they'd have no problem selling them all as long as they weren't absurdly priced (XJ220 anyone?).

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by eaton53

I agree about the Cien.... that car is amazing. Porsches are a big yawn by comparison.

If they had built the Cien exactly to the concept they'd have no problem selling them all as long as they weren't absurdly priced (XJ220 anyone?).

eaton53,

I cannot disagree with you. I for one said, I would be one of the first to sign up if Cadillac decided to build the Cien. Pricing is always a consideration, but I must say it could range anywhere from $150,000 to $250,000 and it would remain competitive.

JLM

[bhoppes]

I have skimmed most of this thread and really enjoy it, because I really love Cadillacs. I have a 89 Brougham that has the original gold keys and I have my 03 Seville that I also really enjoy with only a couple complaints.
Anyway I remember reading something about gold keys and how they used to have them and the regular set of keys.

This is what Cadillac USED to have and doesn't even have it anymore, but it made it a little more special to have a Cadillac. I remember showing my 89 Brougham to my friend and he said it was a pretty nice car, but then I showed him the keys and he was more impressed with the keys than the car. LOL But it's the little touches that help make a luxury brand a real luxury brand.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Oh, before this goes any further, remember, Cadillac does have a history of racing.

Unfortunately the tense of your post is incorrect.
I should read "Cadillac did have a history of racing"

Cadillac "did" race... Unfortunately they didn't win. GM again missed a MASSIVE marketing opportunity by pulling the plug in late 2002 on the racing effort... again, just at the point when the cars and drivers were starting to do "OK" (From memory I think they had there best finish a second in 2002).

If you want to compete with the Audi's BMW's Porches etal... racing is important... Spend some money... and next time win a few...

PS I still have the gold keys from my Allante... The gold keys were cool.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Unfortunately the tense of your post is incorrect.
I should read "Cadillac did have a history of racing"

PS I still have the gold keys from my Allante... The gold keys were cool.

Subject-Verb Agreement my friend.

"Cadillac does have a history" is the independent clause.

"of racing" is describing the history.

No one would say "Cadillac did have a history.

If you don't like what he says you don't have to try to find an error and quibble about it.

But, those Gold keys were quite impressive.