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Who makes the better pony car?

  • Ford/Mustang

    Votes: 34 47.2%
  • GM/Camaro

    Votes: 29 40.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 6.9%
  • Neither

    Votes: 4 5.6%

Which Manufacturer Best Deilvers on the Pony Car Formula and Why?

9K views 110 replies 39 participants last post by  SierraGS 
#1 · (Edited)
We have several monster threads going on Camaro vs Mustang and their respective sales.

Which manufacturer has most successfully delivered on the Pony Car formula and why?

I won't include the Challenger, because it is too damn big to be considered a Pony Car in my opinion. Poll to follow.....
 
#3 ·
If we are going by the definition in your signature then it is probably the Mustang. It seems to have stayed the most true to the original pony car formula. The Camaro seems to be morphing (or attempting to) into the sports car arena.

A few years ago, I would have said Camaro or a tie between the Camaro and Mustang.
 
#10 ·
Ford got the pony car formula right and stayed with it, minus a couple wrong turns. It remains an attractive fun to drive car that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Great performance, very good handling, space for 2+2, while the Camaro has tried copying Mustang, going better handling, higher performance, and going its own way, with cramped interior, true sports car, better chassis.
Each is good in its own way, but the Mustang has stayed true to it's initial formula. And some 9 million sold says Ford has done it right.
 
#11 ·
IMHO a "PONY CAR" I say Mustang
because it is the same price as a FAMILY sedan in V8 form and almost "cheap" in stripper form
I believe the PONY cars were NEVER about TOP performance at the track in "NORMAL" trims (NO GT350 Z/28)
they were affordable STYLISH FUN to drive cars the actual track stars where the Chevelle's and OTHER MUSCLE CARS (WAY MORE PRICEY in the day and DELIVERED the numbers)

I would also say the Fiesta ST and Golf GTI are ALSO close on the "pony car" formula except without the LOOKS but are fast-fun-cheap and a GOOD daily driver

if we where talking SPORTS CARS then yes the Camaro is the better of the two and arguable the BEST one for the dollar but as a PONY car it is NOT
 
#12 ·
Charlie, I think this poll needs to be clarified. It would seem many are voting based on best performance. Best performance is very different than the original Pony Car formula.

It might help if you clarified what the original Pony Car formula is. Of course, that would require everyone to read.............. instead of just seeing "Ford vs Chevy."

On the original premise, yes, the Mustang has stayed more true to it. Although they have ultra high performance versions available, they are relatively affordable, fun to drive, customizeable, and stylish cars that you can live with on a daily basis. Camaro seems to be hell bent on making itself into something that it never was.
 
#27 ·
I have to disagree. I can't say for sure why Camaro sales have jumped the cliff, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with it being on Alpha.

Alpha may have a stigma about it by the GM faithful and "car guys" interested enough to look into what exactly their cars are.
Alpha packaging is subpar.
Alpha likely bumped the price too much.

Who knows. I don't think Camaro is doing anything strange to its formula that hasn't been dictated by forces fairly out of Team Camaro's control.
 
#13 ·
Pony car is defined as an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image (wikipedia).

I am not sure if Camaro and Mustang are pony cars anymore. While most aspects are covered, and affordable is subjective, I think the price as gone too high on both. I would classify them as sports cars, neither is a GT as they concentrate on performance more than luxury. I am not sure if there is a real pony car around anymore. Even a Scion FR-S starts at $27,200. I would say that today's pony cars are really hot hatches.
 
#14 ·
I consider the price "bracket" of the Malibu / Camry as the base for affordable and that would fall into the 22K to 33K range and yes both stretch it a bit but I am also considering the SS/GT as the TOP model and leaving the track versions out as the mustang/Camaro always HAD track versions that were pricy
 
#15 ·
#16 ·
The CHALLENGER. It LOOKS like a pony car.

This is settled science.
 
#18 ·
The Challenger is too big.

A pony car is supposed to be compact.
 
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#24 · (Edited)
There is simply no way to ask that question that would rule out individual bias, thus while the question is fun, it'll end up nothing more than impetus for the next GM/Ford/Mopar pissing contest!

My answer would be both the Camaro and Mustang are great modern examples of the pony car, but not the ones everybody would expect. I think both turbo fours represent well what made the original pony cars so successful. Both are stylish (subjective as I hate the Camaro :p: ), with good but not great performance, while also remaining relatively affordable. Consider that the turbo Mustang with 315HP has more (rated) horsepower than the original GT350 and in spite of being significantly heavier it's also more than 1 second quicker through the quarter mile.

The base GT and SS both are more in the league with the top end muscle car versions of their ancestors in terms of performance. Compare the straight line performance of those two against the Boss 429 or original ZL1, both modern versions are faster. The modern Z28, ZL1, GT350, and GT500's are an embarrassment of riches!

In a world in which the Camaro stayed extinct Ford would not had significant reason to move away from the old solid axle, much less pushed the 5.0 as far as they have, or developed Voodoo. In a world in which the Mustang became a FWD embarrassment the Camaro is unlikely to have ever been reborn, or if it had it too would likely have been some sacrilegious piece of FWD ****. Which is best? Who cares, I'm glad both exist because neither would be as good as they are without the presence of the other!
 
#26 · (Edited)
There are several things that Pony Cars have traditionally delivered.

They were stylish of course. Sometimes world class stylish. That is a prerequisite of these cars.

They were attainable, even if you had to stretch a bit to get them.

They were easy to live with. Sure, they didn't have the utility of a minivan, but you could run your errands, you could pick up a friend or two for a night out, you could pack for a weekend trip for yourself and your significant other.

If you wanted a performance model, you could get one and they were pretty fast, but if you weren't necessarily looking for a "performance" car, you weren't saddled with paying for and living with one.

Also.....Pony Cars sold in substantial volume. They were far from being a low volume, narrow appeal, boutiquey product.
 
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#28 ·
I voted Mustang. I love the Camaro too! I'd actually like to own one. Like the first or second poster said, Camaro seems to be heading to super car territory. The Mustang still exudes American fun and is the true Pony car. Truth be told, this is a great time to be a car guy!
 
#30 · (Edited)
I think the difference is that the Mustang is a more malleable product than Camaro. It can be many things to different people from a daily driver to a track car. The Camaro at its core is geared toward enthusiasts and inflexibly cramped, low, and expensive. Chevy likely lost site of its customer in an effort to make a car they admire, and to justify the expense of the platform that underpins the car. Alpha is just a terrible platform to base these many cars around and it's clear they have struggled to make it work. Ultimately I don't think GM understands this segment as well as Ford or they are just making too many compromises to scale costs.
 
#33 ·
I definitely think the Challenger should be included in this Comparison, as the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are all cross-shopped, and they've always been competitors. The whole pony car/muscle car lines have been blurred, it basically comes down to if you wants a 2 door, RWD V8 (and stickshift) car that's just a no-excuses fun car, you shop amongst these 3.

And I love the people dismissing the Challenger as old, and as a pig. Last months sales seemed to say otherwise. 5,520 Camaros to 5,619 Challengers? A Challenger that dates back to 2008 outsells a brand new Camaro? That's not something you just dismiss.

Source:http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461900 (some good info and graphs in here).



And for the record, if I were to shop amongst these 3, I'd go with the Challenger. It may not be the ultimate track car, but it's a comfortable hotrod, I can get a 6 speed in it, and I think Challenger captures their heritage the best. There have been many Challengers with the right color/wheel/stripe combo that stopped me, and had me saying "damn, that looks hot".



Sorry, I just haven't grown accustomed to the slit 2" upper grille, and Predator inspired lower. Never had one stop me in my tracks yet, just the way it is.



I know it's an outstanding platform, and I won't deny it being the best performer all around. But one of the other aspects of these cars is that it was affordable for the average person. The Camaro definitely is not that. The Challenger is, and that's keeping to its heritage. 98% of these owners won't take their car to the track. I applaud GM's efforts, but I don't think this is in the best interest of their long term strategy. The low performance, bread and butter Camaros were always the top sellers, and kept the platform going to build up and make faster. Unfortunately I think they went the opposite way, they took a killer platform, and tried to cheapen it ever so slightly, and not enough to help it sell. And as a hotrodder, this takes some of the fun out of it for me. I honestly think the car has gotten so well tuned, that there's nothing left for someone like me to do. I'm building a 71 Firebird track car because I like to tinker, and make things better. I think that's the hotrodder mentality. I'd honestly rather take an imperfect $30k and make it better on my own, than have an all around, done car for $50k. Just the opinion of a lifelong F-body fan (I still have 6 of them).
 
#34 ·
A pony car is defined by three things: its styling, its price and the modicum of practicality of having a back seat. There are LOTS of pony cars that didn't have V8s and weren't performance cars. GM sold hundreds of thousands of Camaros and Firebirds with 100 hp sixes (straight and V) or two-barrel base V8s. These were by no contemporary metric performance cars. They looked good. They handled better than other cars. That's it.

Obviously, there were dedicated performance versions of ponycars, and that's where things get a bit confusing. Musclecars without the performance package aren't musclecars -- they are just mid-sized coupes. But, a straight-six Mustang is still a ponycar.

That's why ponycars have far more cultural significance than musclecars. The only people who bought musclecars were performance enthusiasts. But loads of people bought ponycars because they were great-looking and affordable. For many, it might be the only 'interesting' car they ever bought.

By that standard, the Mustang still gets the formula right. It's a great looking car that both looks modern and is obviously a Mustang. It's affordable in base form, yet is still a nice car. A middle-aged guy can buy a GT in a subdued colour and not have it scream "mid-life crisis' and a performance enthusiast can get a GT350 and have a car with more raw charisma than many more exotic cars.

The Camaro doesn't execute as well on the styling or price. The Camaro is mainly a better performance car, but the Mustang is a better ponycar.
 
#47 ·
I think you hit it on the head Tone when you say a Pony Car doesn't have to be fast. It needs to be fun, though. And it needs to bring styling to the party in spades.

Honestly, as long as the Camaro looks like 5th gen meets Transformer, it doesn't really matter much. Sure, GM can start piling cash on the hood, but their styling direction and execution have set this gen in stone. It seems Camaro is having enough difficulty matching Challenger's volume, let alone ever competing with it's cross town rival, (Mustang), again.

What a clusterfark!
 
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#35 ·
So many assumptions in this thread...... people do use their own definition of a pony car though there are a few slightly different definitions of a pony car.

What isn't in any of them is practical....

This is the definition that I generally use for a pony car "affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image". Affordable would be going based off of the lowest price you can get into the car in at and with that the Mustang wins on that front. Both the Mustang and Camaro are compacts so they both meet that, they both have a sporty or performance oriented image though the Camaro wins at that right now. So really you have a tie where they both meet styling with one winning slightly on price and the other one have a more performance/sporty image.

The other assumption that is being made is that this is some holy do not diverge from law written in stone by god where if you go off you fail. In other words following this formula doesn't mean success and not following it doesn't mean failure as the Challenger which doesn't follow this formula on anything other then affordable had be slowly creeping up in price. Which brings me to my main conclusion that price is the biggest factor here...... that most people who are buying they are really buy what is cool to them and what they can afford/willing to afford. Right now you can get a Challenger R/T for $31,090, a Mustang GT for $33,545, and a 1SS for $37,900, if you are looking at a V-6 Camaro then a R/T Challenger and Mustang GT is in your price range.
 
#37 ·
No. Pony cars to me will always be the Mustang and the competitive domestic cars that directly followed which were all built from domestic compact RWD sedans. They are noted for being nearly the same low price as those compact sedans but having sensational looks like they were thousands of dollars more. They came with an economical base drivetrain and could be fully optioned with luxury and hi-performance equipment.

I believe the Mustang remains the closest to the original formula but really the trio of modern pony cars are reaching far out of the affordable for every person range and have become more like expensive sports cars that are a luxury to own.

After the Mustang was introduced in the mid-60s, it killed Falcon sales. People chose the sensation of the Mustang or upgraded to the Fairlane/Torino line leaving the Falcon to become a basic frugal transportation choice.

The Camaro followed the same formula as the Mustang making the Corvair irrelevant.
That is such a narrow minded view on the segment that really throws out any definition of what a pony car is, also throws in a lot of subjective into the argument. Though I would say that the Hyundai Genesis coupe can sneak into the segment making it a 4 car race.

One thing that can't be denied is the simple fact that these cars are at the least cross shopped by some buyers.
 
#40 ·
It may sound narrow minded to you but that is exactly the pony car class that originated. Just because the choices of sporty coupes with higher performance have become diverse does not make them part of the original pony car class. Cross shopped or not, derivatives are either sports cars or sport coupes. Some are hot hatches or pocket rockets. Some are FWD or RWD. If it does not say Mustang, Cougar, Camaro, Firebird, Challenger, Barracuda or Javelin then it is not member of the original pack of domestics called pony cars that existed in the mid-60s to early 70s.
Ok that is just flat out dumb, so no car can be called a sports car if they are not one of the original British sports cars...

You can add vehicles to the pony car segment and you can knock vehicles off of the pony car segment.
 
#39 ·
Mustang is nowhere near its original formula. The 1964 1/2 'stang was a Falcon with a body and a name.

I remember my first ride in one of the first Mustangs in town.

It took a couple of years for 'stang to evolve from a tinny POS into something resembling performance.
 
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#41 ·
People seem to forget this, the Mustang had in 1964 1/4 at most had a 210HP 289 V-8 (also had a 260 cubic inch V-8). Performance image is the key here as it doesn't have performance but an image of performance. A Chevy Sonic RS fits this more then the modern Mustang along as the definition that you use doesn't include an optional V-8 engine.
 
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