Make Chevrolet Great Again!

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Thread: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

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    Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    All these threads about the possible Opel sale to PSA have me thinking. It's pretty obvious that GM wants to get away from selling cars and sell more CUVs and SUVs in North America, which they deem easier and more profitable to sell.

    Why can't GM or more specifically Chevrolet make a killing at selling passenger cars? Me personally, I'm not very happy with what Chevy offers as far exterior design, packaging, and lack of performance options. Sooooooooooooooo much room for improvement, that is so obvious.

    Let's take the Malibu for instance. The Malibu - as a product - should be a cash cow for Chevy. I know a lot of you find the car attractive to look at, but if you see one without the 19" wheels, it's just plain butt ugly. And those 19 inchers puts you into a $31,000 car before options. Come on now.Why can't the base $21,000 Malibu look good?

    It's pretty easy to load up a Malibu Premier and be in the $35,000 range. Does that make sense? Not to me. So many other choices for that kind of money. Hell, I'd rather spend a few extra bucks and get a base Alfa Romeo Giulia for $37,995.

    We can talk about the Malibu or any other Chevy passenger car here. But it's almost as if Chevy is actually TRYING to sabotage it's own passenger car business.

    Let me hear how you think Chevy should fix it's passenger car problems.
    Last edited by Z284ever; 02-16-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
    Let me hear how you think Chevy should fix it's passenger car problems.
    Chevrolet needs to reflect public demand - and sell CUV/SUV alongside cars.

    Build cars the public wants.

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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    The problem with a lot of Chebby's has always been unless you get the top tier, it's pretty "meh". I felt that a lot of Opel's designs were good, like the last gen Regal GS (which failed for a lot of reasons, styling not one of them). Regardless, styling isn't the Malibu or Impala's problem, both are infinitely better looking than the Focus or Taurus. GM charges top tier pricing and doesn't offer anything better than a mid line engine, 2.0T in the Malibu and 3.6 in the Impala. Those should NOT be top engines.

    Some of the choices they make on the lower tier ones appear to only be for the benefit of making you want a nicer one.

    GM's pricing structure in general is a bit out of whack. That and outside of the Camaro, Corvette and the 6.2L trucks, they don't offer anything with power. Ford and FCA do.

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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    I'm sorry, but this is one of those, "I'm not happy which obviously means nobody must be happy" things.

    I'd say Malibu LS is actually one of the better executions of base models.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    For me at 6'-5" and mid-60s there's just no way in hell I want to fold up, fall down and twist my way into the seat of any passenger car when I can comfortably swing into a SUV/CUV with the seat at butt level and an accommodating roof height. My wife just traded her 2014 Cruze for a new Encore that is better equipped, similar MPG, same lease payment and much easier to enter and exit. I think the fading away of the passenger car is about this factor more than any other.

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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    While I'm not a big fan of Chevy's current car styling either there is one major exception, the Impala. The Impala is the best looking car made by Chevy, Ford or Dodge right now.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinahcc20 View Post
    For me at 6'-5" and mid-60s there's just no way in hell I want to fold up, fall down and twist my way into the seat of any passenger car when I can comfortably swing into a SUV/CUV with the seat at butt level and an accommodating roof height. My wife just traded her 2014 Cruze for a new Encore that is better equipped, similar MPG, same lease payment and much easier to enter and exit. I think the fading away of the passenger car is about this factor more than any other.
    Good point. My wife has been in one SUV or another for almost 20 years. There is no going back for her. She is now an SUV/CUV gal. When she rides in my car, she'll usually state that "it feels like my ass is dragging on the pavement". As far as SUVs go, she's "in".


    So how can a transportation appliance passenger car compete with that? It can't! Not unless the primary factor is to get one dirt cheap, but most of these cars are actually similarly priced with some options.

    So maybe, if we accept this fact, maybe cars need to be a bit more special than they have been. During the 20 years my wife has been driving her SUVs, I've been driving my cars. All of them cool products. All of them with a manual trans. All of them fun to drive and look at. Maybe the key is to create cars that have a little excitement to them. Just a thought.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnough View Post
    The problem with a lot of Chebby's has always been unless you get the top tier, it's pretty "meh". I felt that a lot of Opel's designs were good, like the last gen Regal GS (which failed for a lot of reasons, styling not one of them). Regardless, styling isn't the Malibu or Impala's problem, both are infinitely better looking than the Focus or Taurus. GM charges top tier pricing and doesn't offer anything better than a mid line engine, 2.0T in the Malibu and 3.6 in the Impala. Those should NOT be top engines.

    Some of the choices they make on the lower tier ones appear to only be for the benefit of making you want a nicer one.

    GM's pricing structure in general is a bit out of whack. That and outside of the Camaro, Corvette and the 6.2L trucks, they don't offer anything with power. Ford and FCA do.
    Agreed. Choices seem artificially restricted and if want something more, GM makes you PAY for it.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is one of those, "I'm not happy which obviously means nobody must be happy" things.

    I'd say Malibu LS is actually one of the better executions of base models.

    Not everyone is unhappy, but the trends are there. If consumers loved these cars, they'd buy more of them.
    Last edited by Z284ever; 02-16-2017 at 05:38 PM.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    ***Boiled Down***

    GM can't make any money selling an "economical" sedan, so either they entice you to pay-up for a higher-trimmed version or a CUV.

    It is much easier to "overcharge" for a CUV than get you to pay-up for a car; look at what Chrysler just did, Dart/200 - GONE.

    Try this; base price for a Trax is ~$5,000/30% higher than a Sonic, what does it cost GM another $1,000 to $2,000?

    - So if GM breaks-even on a Sonic, they are making $3,000 more on a Trax.


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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Since "cars" and "suvs" are essentially built off the same chassis, it should not be a question of why this? or why that?

    The problem is with management, it always has been and it always will be. GM management strikes me as similar to joints like Red China. Hear me out.

    Chairhomie Mao pruned many of his most talented people during his Great Purge. Tens of millions of his own citizens murdered pitilessly.
    Why? Because creative, intelligent, talented people are a threat to the established order.

    Never mind that the established order has power on its side. Like all bureaucracies it also has CONTROL and tunnel vision on its side.

    So. To stick to my own area of experience. I NEVER EVER in a million years (exaggeration; I am not a million years old, nor have I been buying cars for a million years) would have imagined myself in one of those tall boxes. Krikey! I'm a See-Dan Man! Yes I Can!

    But the Soul ads, from the original hamster cage ad to the Super Bowl ads to other formidably clever ads, on through the 12 Steps of Creativity, caught my attention. So when I ditched my GXP and 200 I visited the KIA dealer. Keep in mind that prior to 2008, I considered KIA a joke. Not a real car.

    Driving the Spectra changed my mind. Sedan. Excellent car, it reminded me of nothing so much as my 1966 Rover 2000, overall probably the finest car I've ever owned.

    Anyway, I visited the KIA dealer again because between d-i-l and me we'd had 3 KIAs that were excellent cars, no worries.

    I bought a '13 Soul. Excellent car, VERY handy. I traded it--big mistake--for a Charger which I should have Lemon Law'ed but didn't.

    I've had my current Soul for 2 1/2 years, somewhat of a modern record outside of the Spectra...hmmm. But I've had that hankerin'. I leased a Chally and decided it wasn't what I wanted. Got rid of it, finally, a couple of weeks ago.
    But I do want a sedan again. I want the lower profile and better MPG that a sedan does and a ute doesn't. And I want more agility than a two-ton car has.

    My shootout is now down to Elantra Value Edition, Optima EX/pan roof, and Optima 1.6t.

    I even dropped in to the Buick dealer yesterday, because I am so up-to-here with the rectum-like no-IQ KIA and Hyundai sales jerks.
    Verano. Looks nice, feels nice, sits nice. The base 2.4 mill is rated at 24/32. Huh? What year is this?
    And they quit making these.
    Because the Encore is a runaway success. (Who at Caddy would ever have suspected that? Nobody, that's who.)

    And they don't lease Veranos. "They stop leasing around October," the sales guy said. Wuh?

    So...At the Cruz thread, I suggested if Chibby wants to moooo-vvv some Cruz hatches, they do a bit of re-engineering. Raise the roof to 60-61". Raise the seats to 24-25" off the ground. PT Cruiser altitude. Bend the sheet metal again so the car looks OK.

    Bingo. You have a compromise--to use the new word hybrid--between sedan (or hatch version) and ute. I think it would be a happy medium. But there seems a hard-and-fast rule, sedans are 57" tall, give or take an inch or two. Honda dropped the Civic's height an inch or two. Or the seats anyway.
    In the Utility Era. Huh?

    In summary.
    1. Advertising. GM is hopeless here. Other than wholesale dismissal of the decision-makers, GM ads--excepting GMC, which are OK--will remain 6' under for the forseeable future.
    Those horrid Chibby oh wow! ads, they are on a level with Zip Recruiter (yes, doing your job is SOOO difficult! Boo hoo snowflake! Don't worry! A bot like Zip will replace you before you're finished whining!) and Liberty Mutual (hey...don't drive your car into a tree or the river, you won't have that problem! Hint: it's not the insurance company that drove your car into a tree!) for the Idiocracy Awards Ceremony.
    Great advertising made the Soul. It will NOT make the Chibbys.
    Because there is NO HOPE for Chibby ads to be great again. Dinah Shore is dead, so is Chibby advertising.

    2. Give the customers what they want. Try a couple of years of option lists vs. mandatory packages that force you into a 27 grand Cruz just because you want dual zone and heated seats. And put back the sunglasses holder, it's cheap and it's handy and for some people it's a deal breaker.

    3. Unlock your creative people in design, engineering, advertising. The top few layers of suits should be encouraged to retire.

    4. Last but not least, fix the sales experience. Almost everyone hates car salesmen and car dealerships. Gee I wonder why? Because car salesmen are 95% A-Holes?

    Try a few dealerships with some Honda (hahaha!) AI robots waiting on you. As everywhere else, bots will bring costs down and reliability up. The money you save on sales staff can cut car prices or increase warranties or improve training in the service department.
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 02-17-2017 at 12:22 AM.
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Since "cars" and "suvs" are essentially built off the same chassis, it should not be a question of why this? or why that?

    The problem is with management, it always has been and it always will be. GM management strikes me as similar to joints like Red China. Hear me out.
    Chairhomie Mao pruned many of his most talented people during his Great Purge. Tens of millions of his own citizens murdered pitilessly.
    Why? Because creative, intelligent, talented people are a threat to the established order.

    Never mind that the established order has power on its side. Like all bureaucracies it also has CONTROL and tunnel vision on its side.

    So. To stick to my own area of experience. I NEVER EVER in a million years (exaggeration; I am not a million years old, nor have I been buying cars for a million years) would have imagined myself in one of those tall boxes. Krikey! I'm a See-Dan Man! Yes I Can!

    But the Soul ads, from the original hamster cage ad to the Super Bowl ads to other formidably clever ads, on through the 12 Steps of Creativity, caught my attention. So when I ditched my GXP and 200 I visited the KIA dealer. Keep in mind that prior to 2008, I considered KIA a joke. Not a real car.

    Driving the Spectra changed my mind. Sedan. Excellent car, it reminded me of nothing so much as my 1966 Rover 2000, overall probably the finest car I've ever owned.

    Anyway, I visited the KIA dealer again because between d-i-l and me we'd had 3 KIAs that were excellent cars, no worries.

    I bought a '13 Soul. Excellent car, VERY handy. I traded it--big mistake--for a Charger which I should have Lemon Lawed but didn't.

    I've had my current Soul for 2 1/2 years, somewhat of a modern record outside of the Spectra...hmmm. But I've had that hankerin'. I leased a Chally and decided it wasn't what I wanted. Got rid of it, finally, a couple of weeks ago. But I do want a sedan again. I want the lower profile and better MPG that a sedan does and a ute doesn't. Plus I want more agility than a two-ton car has.

    I even dropped in to the Buick dealer yesterday, because I am so up-to-here with the rectum-like no-IQ KIA and Hyundai sales jerks. Verano. Looks nice, feels nice, sits nice. The base 2.4 mill is rated at 24/32. Huh? What year is this?
    And they quit making these.
    Because the Encore is a runaway success. (Who at Caddy would ever have suspected that? Nobody, that's who.)

    And they don't lease Veranos. "They stop leasing around October," the sales guy said. Wuh?

    So...At the Cruz thread, I suggested if Chibby wants to moooo-vvv some Cruz hatches, they do a bit of re-engineering. Raise the roof to 60-61". Raise the seats to 24-25" off the ground. PT Cruiser altitude. Bend the sheet metal again so the car looks OK.

    Bingo. You have a compromise--to use the new word hybrid--between sedan (or hatch version) and ute. I think it would be a happy medium. But there seems a hard-and-fast rule, sedans are 57" tall, give or take an inch or two. Honda dropped the Civic. In the Utility Era. Huh?

    In summary.
    1. Advertising. GM is hopeless here. Other than wholesale dismissal of the decision-makers, GM ads--excepting GMC, which are OK--will remain 6' under for the forseeable future.
    Those horrid Chibby oh wow! ads, they are on a level with Zip Recruiter (yes, doing your job is SOOO difficult! Boo hoo snowflake! Don't worry! A bot like Zip will replace you before you're finished whining!) and Liberty Mutual (hey...don't drive your car into a tree or the river, you won't have that problem! Hint: it's not the insurance company that drove your car into a tree!) for the Idiocracy Awards Ceremony.
    Great advertising made the Soul. It will NOT make the Chibbys.

    2. Give them what they want. Try a couple of years of option lists vs. mandatory packages that force you into a 27 grand Cruz just because you want dual zone and heated seats. And put back the sunglasses holder, it's cheap and it's handy and for some people it's a deal breaker.

    3. Unlock your creative people in design, engineering, advertising. The top few layers of suits should be encouraged to retire.

    4. Last but not least, fix the sales experience. Almost everyone hates car salesmen and car dealerships. Gee I wonder why? Because car salesmen are 95% A-Holes? Try a few dealerships with some Honda (hahaha!) AI robots waiting on you. As everywhere else, bots will bring costs down and reliability up. The money you save on sales staff can cut car prices or increase warranties or improve training in the service department.

    I can just see the product planning meetings.

    FIRST DWEEB: "We'll manipulate the option packages so everyone ends up with a $27,000 Cruze, a $32,000 Malibu and $40,000 Camaro"

    SECOND DWEEB: "Brillant! We're gonna be rich!!!"
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJet502 View Post
    While I'm not a big fan of Chevy's current car styling either there is one major exception, the Impala. The Impala is the best looking car made by Chevy, Ford or Dodge right now.
    But that Impala with the "Base" rear bumper looks like poo poo, you need the "dual exhaust" rear bumper to look good. Why? Does it really cost more? It's like they purposely made it look blah for the sake of making you want the nice one.

    3.6 is a great engine setup, throw a 9 speed in there and it will continue to be great. But why can't you get anything better? Ford has the (now) dated SHO, FCA's v6 may be a worse setup, but they offer 3 (yes 3) bigger v8's. Now, the Impala doesn't need to be a Hellcat competitor, but why not at least the SHO?
    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Since "cars" and "suvs" are essentially built off the same chassis, it should not be a question of why this? or why that?

    The problem is with management, it always has been and it always will be. GM management strikes me as similar to joints like Red China. Hear me out.
    Chairhomie Mao pruned many of his most talented people during his Great Purge. Tens of millions of his own citizens murdered pitilessly.
    Why? Because creative, intelligent, talented people are a threat to the established order.

    Never mind that the established order has power on its side. Like all bureaucracies it also has CONTROL and tunnel vision on its side.

    So. To stick to my own area of experience. I NEVER EVER in a million years (exaggeration; I am not a million years old, nor have I been buying cars for a million years) would have imagined myself in one of those tall boxes. Krikey! I'm a See-Dan Man! Yes I Can!

    But the Soul ads, from the original hamster cage ad to the Super Bowl ads to other formidably clever ads, on through the 12 Steps of Creativity, caught my attention. So when I ditched my GXP and 200 I visited the KIA dealer. Keep in mind that prior to 2008, I considered KIA a joke. Not a real car.

    Driving the Spectra changed my mind. Sedan. Excellent car, it reminded me of nothing so much as my 1966 Rover 2000, overall probably the finest car I've ever owned.

    Anyway, I visited the KIA dealer again because between d-i-l and me we'd had 3 KIAs that were excellent cars, no worries.

    I bought a '13 Soul. Excellent car, VERY handy. I traded it--big mistake--for a Charger which I should have Lemon Lawed but didn't.

    I've had my current Soul for 2 1/2 years, somewhat of a modern record outside of the Spectra...hmmm. But I've had that hankerin'. I leased a Chally and decided it wasn't what I wanted. Got rid of it, finally, a couple of weeks ago. But I do want a sedan again. I want the lower profile and better MPG that a sedan does and a ute doesn't. Plus I want more agility than a two-ton car has.

    I even dropped in to the Buick dealer yesterday, because I am so up-to-here with the rectum-like no-IQ KIA and Hyundai sales jerks. Verano. Looks nice, feels nice, sits nice. The base 2.4 mill is rated at 24/32. Huh? What year is this?
    And they quit making these.
    Because the Encore is a runaway success. (Who at Caddy would ever have suspected that? Nobody, that's who.)

    And they don't lease Veranos. "They stop leasing around October," the sales guy said. Wuh?

    So...At the Cruz thread, I suggested if Chibby wants to moooo-vvv some Cruz hatches, they do a bit of re-engineering. Raise the roof to 60-61". Raise the seats to 24-25" off the ground. PT Cruiser altitude. Bend the sheet metal again so the car looks OK.

    Bingo. You have a compromise--to use the new word hybrid--between sedan (or hatch version) and ute. I think it would be a happy medium. But there seems a hard-and-fast rule, sedans are 57" tall, give or take an inch or two. Honda dropped the Civic. In the Utility Era. Huh?

    In summary.
    1. Advertising. GM is hopeless here. Other than wholesale dismissal of the decision-makers, GM ads--excepting GMC, which are OK--will remain 6' under for the forseeable future.
    Those horrid Chibby oh wow! ads, they are on a level with Zip Recruiter (yes, doing your job is SOOO difficult! Boo hoo snowflake! Don't worry! A bot like Zip will replace you before you're finished whining!) and Liberty Mutual (hey...don't drive your car into a tree or the river, you won't have that problem! Hint: it's not the insurance company that drove your car into a tree!) for the Idiocracy Awards Ceremony.
    Great advertising made the Soul. It will NOT make the Chibbys.

    2. Give them what they want. Try a couple of years of option lists vs. mandatory packages that force you into a 27 grand Cruz just because you want dual zone and heated seats. And put back the sunglasses holder, it's cheap and it's handy and for some people it's a deal breaker.

    3. Unlock your creative people in design, engineering, advertising. The top few layers of suits should be encouraged to retire.

    4. Last but not least, fix the sales experience. Almost everyone hates car salesmen and car dealerships. Gee I wonder why? Because car salesmen are 95% A-Holes? Try a few dealerships with some Honda (hahaha!) AI robots waiting on you. As everywhere else, bots will bring costs down and reliability up. The money you save on sales staff can cut car prices or increase warranties or improve training in the service department.
    To just respond to one of your points, Verano was a great car that was left to rot. Update the dash, color driver info and put the 2.5 in instead of the 2.4, or just offer the 2.0T across the board (price justifies it), maybe some lighting updates to keep it fresh and BAM, great car again. It had everything it needed when it was released and it sold well, but they never updated it.
    Last edited by NeverEnough; 02-16-2017 at 06:03 PM.

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  29. #14
    GMI Camaro Forum Moderator Premium Member Z284ever's Avatar
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnough View Post
    But that Impala with the "Base" rear bumper looks like poo poo, you need the "dual exhaust" rear bumper to look good. Why? Does it really cost more? It's like they purposely made it look blah for the sake of making you want the nice one.

    3.6 is a great engine setup, throw a 9 speed in there and it will continue to be great. But why can't you get anything better? Ford has the (now) dated SHO, FCA's v6 may be a worse setup, but they offer 3 (yes 3) bigger v8's. Now, the Impala doesn't need to be a Hellcat competitor, but why not at least the SHO?


    To just respond to one of your points, Verano was a great car that was left to rot. Update the dash, color driver info and put the 2.5 in instead of the 2.4, or just offer the 2.0T across the board (price justifies it), maybe some lighting updates to keep it fresh and BAM, great car again. It had everything it needed when it was released and it sold well, but they never updated it.
    It seems that Chevy/GM makes half-hearted attempts at cars and then is disappointed when they don't lead their segments. No excitement, no updates, no nothing. In the meantime I just priced a RWD Alfa Giulia and added both the Sport Appearance Package and Sport Interior Package and it MSRPs for $39,840. That's Chevy money - for an Alfa.
    Pony Car: an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image and an available V8.

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  31. #15
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 Cobaltss_King's Avatar
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    Re: Make Chevrolet Great Again!

    GM is almost there with Chevy. Add more diesels, performance trim levels and a SS replacement. All low selling items but good for the brand.
    "More powerful, quicker and outright faster than a comparable BMW, Cadillac’s newest model is the best reason to skip the letter M and head all the way down the alphabet to V."
    Current rides: Modded 08' Sunburst Orange Cobalt SS/TC
    06' Cadillac CTS
    07' Mazda RX8 Manual (It fell into my lap)

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