HUMMER: The Best of GM’s Brands on the Cusp of Being Thrown Away

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

There is a need for vehicles such as HUMMER.

Come on. You could argue that fire departments and the Bureau of Land Management needed the H1, but there is no "need" for an H3 wagon. It is far less functional than a Silverado 2500.

Balloon tires, a Jeep grille and quirky switch gear. That's today's Hummer.

The government doesn't estimate fuel economy for the H2 because it's so large, but dealers estimate it gets around 12 miles per gallon. With gas at $4 a gallon, it costs $128 to fill up the H2's 32-gallon tank.

Considering that gas is twice as expensive in other parts of the world, I do not see Europe and Japan as part of a long term plan to keep the Hummer brand alive.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by dav305z

I just have to disagree with you on this Mgescuro (for the record, I agree with you most of the time). Sometimes the niche for niche brands disappear, and it's not worth keeping them.

Baloney.
You know why? Corvette, Camaro, Solstice, Sky, XLR are all niche vehicles.
Perhaps we should kill them too?
They certainly don't contribute to anything but image at this point.

[dav305z]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

A lot of people hate the Prius and Toyota, but that's not a reason to get rid of them. There's always somebody that isn't going to like you. Screw 'em.

Screw who? The buying public? This is acutely the perception problem GM has right now. People perceive that the company does not know or care about the concerns of the buying public.

And who, exactly hates Toyota and the Prius? This board is not quite a [quoterepresentative sample of the American public. The company consistently ranks number 1 in buyer perception surveys. A lot of people really, really, like them. Bob Lutz himself admitted GM made a PR gaffe by rejecting hybrids.These are the times we live in.

I'd say at least 80% of average people have no idea GM owns Hummer.

Can anyone find some real numbers? I couldn't find any, but would suggest your number is preposterous for two reasons:

1) Every article I have ever seen mentioning Hummer also mentions General Motors.
2)Until recently, there were virtually no standalone Hummer dealers. You're telling me people were going to Cadillac dealers to buy their Hummers but had no clue the truck was General Motors?

That why GM platform shares. While the H3 isn't doing that great alone, the Colorado, Canyon, AND H3 together can make decent sales (if GM doesn't continue to screw things up).

True enough. But the question GM needs to ask with every platform is whether the market can support multiple variants. Five years ago, it would have been impossible for GM to make too many variants of its popular and excellent trucks. Nowadays, that pie is much, much smaller.

I think GM has bigger worries than Hummer - Pontiac for one. That brand is in an image crisis. Hummer at least has clear direction of what it is and where it's heading. Drop/lower the H2, bring in the H4, refresh the H3 and Hummer will be fine.

That direction is off a cliff. Hummer is arguably healthier than Pontiac right now because it has been the focus of intensive investment over the past ten years. Give Pontiac the same infusion of product and marketing and see where it goes.

The main consideration for a brand should not be the cars that are on its lot right now, but what its potential is given the "right" product. This is tricky and not easy to do, but it is important for GM to do because they have too many mouths to feed.

I'd speculate that even with a great lineup of new trucks, Hummer will underperform badly. Meanwhile, every article stating "GM continues to invest in Hummer" will sink it further and further in public opinion.

All of these knee jerk reactions by GM (and consumers) is what has GM (and the economy) in a bad situation. Things will stabilize soon and people will cope and adapt. Trucks and SUVs will become popular again soon enough. It doesn't take long for people to realize that driving a compact isn't the same as driving a mid-sized SUV. They'll be back.

GM has to follow consumers -- that's a company's job. I agree that consumers might be over reacting, but go tell 250 million people to calm down and see where it gets you. The days when GM could dictate to the American public what its tastes should be are long, long over. And sure, SUV's will be back, but never to where they were earlier this decade.

You are right in that GM should not offer a knee-jerk reaction, but neither should they continue to wallow in indecision while their fortunes slide further and further. Analysts have been saying for well over a decade that GM needs to cut brands. GM must consider which brands are worth the major investment needed to keep them current. I'd argue that Hummer is not worth that investment.

Baloney.
You know why? Corvette, Camaro, Solstice, Sky, XLR are all niche vehicles.
Perhaps we should kill them too?
They certainly don't contribute to anything but image at this point.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying GM should get rid of niche vehicles in general. That would be ridiculous. I was saying the specific niche for Hummer is imploding.

Has the niche for any of the vehicles you mentioned disappeared? Have Corvette and Solstice owners been rushing to dealers to end their leases and buy mid-size and compact cars? Has GM, Mazda, and Ford had to shut down factories that produce performance cars? I don't think so.

What is happening to the truck market in the U.S. right now is historic. The only comparison that comes close is that of musclecars during the gas crisis.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by dav305z

They still have to support the brand, and right now, these cars just aren't selling well. GM is not a botique manufacturer - it needs volume to survive - and right now volume is not gonna be found in new trucks.

Then kill Cadillac if GM is not a "boutique manufacturer."
Cadillac doesn't sell signficant volume and is the 2nd smalelr GM division.

Kill it now.
Better yet.... sell it....

[Ambalanche]

First, I don't believe that HUMMER is "The best of GM's Brands". GM has many much more storied brands than Hummer. Hummer has been branded, fairly or unfairly as a Gas Hog by the media. As you all know, it is extremely difficult to overcome something the media has made up it's mind about. The media has been relentless about how UN-GREEN Hummer is and I'm not sure even if every vehicle Hummer produces was based on E-flex Hummer could shed that image.

Second, I'm not sure GM has the money to throw at the brand to remake it. The HX (H4) would have been a good start, but without a powertrain that would make it a "Green Vehicle" it would be doomed as another gas guzzler from GM/Hummer. I hate this is happening. Just my .02

[Chaz_23]

This is an instance that distinguishes good management from typical dumb sheepish American management followers of the church of "leadership".

Crisis A sets in. American managament has panic attacks, gets rid of any product labeled undesirable. Foreign management sticks to its guns.
Crisis B sets in. American managament has nervous breakdowns, gets rid of any product deemed undesirable. Foreign management sticks to its guns.
Crisis C sets in. Now products from crisis A are desirable again. American management is dumbfounded, has no product, doesn't know what to do. Foreign management just fine, never stopped believing in their product.
Crisis D sets in. American managament becomes schizoid and helpless, ready to throw the entire company overboard, whatever is left of it anyway. Foreigners never began cutting and have to offer whatever is fashionable in current 5-year crisis cycle.

[dav305z]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Then kill Cadillac if GM is not a "boutique manufacturer."
Cadillac doesn't sell signficant volume and is the 2nd smalelr GM division.

Kill it now.
Better yet.... sell it....

Cadillac isn't a boutique brand. It sold about 80,000 vehicles through May of this year. Hummer sold about 15,000. Cadillac has a nationwide network of mostly standalone dealers, many of whom have been in business for over a century. Hummer has only a few standalone dealers.

Most importantly, Cadillac is known for selling many different types of vehicles. It has trucks, crossovers, big sedans, smaller sedans, front drive, rear drive etc. People are not going to shift away from luxury cars as a general rule.

Hummer sells one kind of vehicle: a truck. A body on frame, squared off truck that looks like the HumVee currently in use by the U.S. army. People loved this kind of car when gas was $1.80 and the post-9/11 spirit had many people looking for the militaristic security offered by Hummers. It was a phenomenon, and GM rode it perfectly. The H2 was arguably the best vehicle GM produced at the time it came out.

But the times have changed. People don't want the type of vehicle that Hummer epitomizes. Everything that made Hummer valuable five years ago is now a detriment. Time to move on.

[ponchoman49]

Niche brand or no GM doesn't really need the deadweight of this brand to drag it down in these terrible times. Not only does GM have a reputation to build back up as being green and the producer of more efficient vehicles but Hummer is taxing GM's finanaces with products that aren't really selling all that well. I would rather see the money go into Pontiac and Buick who desperatly need more and better product to sell. The less branches on the tree weighting it down, the stronger it will stand and grow.

[vcs2600]

If/When GM declares bankruptcy, they're going to run a picture of a HUMMER in the lead.

[MisterMe]

Originally Posted by jameskz28

...

And to the layperson I don't believe "Fisher" is synonomous with "GM".

If the Good Ole Days for you were the 1990s, then you are probably right. For those of us who were not born yesterday, you are wrong raised to a power.

Read a little Fisher Body history.

[blue3231]

Originally Posted by Tone

I'd say 82.66% of GMI posters make up statistics to bolster their arguement!

True, but only 50% of the time.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

There is a need for vehicles such as HUMMER.

Sure there is. On MTV Cribs.



Where is the 'need' for a 3 ton, 9-12mpg passenger truck that only 10% of the drivers ever leave the pavement with like the Hummer? Need? Hardly. Want, sure, that's a given, but no one 'needs' a Hummer.

(Well, I guess some of us on here could go for a hummer, might improve the mood somewhat....hehehehehe)

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Come on. You could argue that fire departments and the Bureau of Land Management needed the H1, but there is no "need" for an H3 wagon. It is far less functional than a Silverado 2500.

Balloon tires, a Jeep grille and quirky switch gear. That's today's Hummer.

Again, just because you don't participate in outdoor activities, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. The H3 is a very popular and capable off-road vehicle. When I travel to Tucson, I see them all over the place - way more than the Wrangler. And the Wrangler has been around forever. "Need" might be a little extreme, but there is a market for these types of vehicles that no Chevy or GMC can currently fill.

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Considering that gas is twice as expensive in other parts of the world, I do not see Europe and Japan as part of a long term plan to keep the Hummer brand alive.

Actually, I was in Tokyo last year and I was shocked by the number of H2s I saw. Maybe 5 over the 24 hours that I was there. That's the only American vehicle that I remember seeing while I was there. And H2s and H3s are all over in the UAE and becoming more popular every time I travel there.

[Robert Ryan]

Then kill Cadillac if GM is not a "boutique manufacturer."
Cadillac doesn't sell signficant volume and is the 2nd smalelr GM division.

Kill it now.
Better yet.... sell it....

Agreed, they have to consider what to do with it. Cadillac is selling less vehicles in it's home market, than Toyota..a very bad sign.

[MaxLegroom]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

This is an instance that distinguishes good management from typical dumb sheepish American management followers of the church of "leadership".

Crisis A sets in. American managament has panic attacks, gets rid of any product labeled undesirable. Foreign management sticks to its guns.
Crisis B sets in. American managament has nervous breakdowns, gets rid of any product deemed undesirable. Foreign management sticks to its guns.
Crisis C sets in. Now products from crisis A are desirable again. American management is dumbfounded, has no product, doesn't know what to do. Foreign management just fine, never stopped believing in their product.
Crisis D sets in. American managament becomes schizoid and helpless, ready to throw the entire company overboard, whatever is left of it anyway. Foreigners never began cutting and have to offer whatever is fashionable in current 5-year crisis cycle.

That sounds about right.

Another thought I have here is that by the time GM manages to finally find a buyer for Hummer, a good part of the cash crunch will have dissipated by the sales of good small and mid sized cars, and they will wonder, with growing sales elsewhere, why they ever bothered to consider the idea.

Hummer could still be GM's equivalent to Jeep, but it will take time and at least the development of a smaller vehicle to bring this about.