How GM Can Keep up With Japan's Next Big Weapon: Planned Obsolescence

[mkaake]

Originally Posted by wpbharry

Oh really? Not according to long-term results. But, yes, according to short-term JDP idiocy.

It's very possible that the trannie in my Maxx is about to heave ho. Was replaced (per TSB), once in January for an intolerable whine. Dealer claims this was the first such repair they'd done, as the Julian Date range (GM ancient speak that hardly anyone can figure out) had me in a rare category.

Something is burning up in it right now. Bet the trannie is suspect, but even more likely, the gaskets. Yep, this after the gasket fiasco in the '98 Malibu. Edmund's has me suspect, but this car is under 10K miles. Wonderful, heh?

And let me count the ways that the "new GM" is crapola. New fuel tank (TSB), headliner (to fix sunshades; now there's a rattle in the headliner that's driving me out of my mind - well documented on Edmund's) (TSB), front struts are shot, as are every other '04 Maxx (GM can't find a fix yet), hatch struts collapsed (TSB), Body Control Module has a mind of its own (MANY TSBs), Power Control Module gets a reprogram every time I'm in for an oil change (MANY TSBs)(due shortly)....

Should I continue?

Yes really. And your 'analysis' of what's wrong with your car is interesting, but I'll leave that alone for now. In any event, what really made me laugh was this:

the Julian Date range (GM ancient speak that hardly anyone can figure out)

Maybe it doesn't make sense to someone who's never heard of it before, and never took about 1/3 of a second to do a google search on it.
Seriously. Go to google.com and type in Julian date. that ancient speak that hardly anyone can figure out can be decoded for you in about 2 seconds. Good thing too, cause the julian date is really put on the transmission case for the consumer to look at and understand, not the people who have to fix it (who have never seen a julian date before). That's why they put it on the top of the transmission, where it's all nice and covered up. So when you're having a bad day, and want to find something to gripe at GM about, you can tear your engine/transmission out of your car, unmount them, and take a look at your julian date. Then you can go ahead and post on a forum about how you don't understand this 'ancient speak' that's pretty well known by anyone in the business.

Anyway, yes, GM reliability is doing better and better. Short and long term. and while I sympathize when *anyone* has car trouble (even if they're driving a toyo) a single car with issues does not mean GM doesn't have great reliability.

Oh, and just a heads up - a TSB doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the car, it's just special instructions that the dealer should follow if they do have to make a repair on a vehicle. But I guess it is sort of fun to list them off... here, let me give it a shot for my '96 lesabre.

Never mind, there's a TON of them. Let me give you a small sprinkling:

#04-06-04-051B Info - Maintenance Cleaning of Fuel Injectors - (Jan 4, 2006)
#05-03-10-020 Info - Use of Nitrogen Gas in Tires - (Dec 22, 2005)
#99-09-40-005C Info - Seat Belt Extender Availability - (Nov 23, 2005)
#99-08-51-001A Info - Paint-less Dent Repair Process - (Nov 21, 2005)
#02-01-39-004B Info - New PAG Oil Released - (Nov 16, 2005)
#00-00-89-027C Info - Eliminating Unwanted Odors in Vehicles - (Oct 25, 2005)
#05-00-89-072 Info - Fuel and Oil Additives - Facts and Myths/Maximizing Fuel Economy - (Oct 24, 2005)

Some pretty serious stuff there. GM quality sure has gone down the crapper.

Well this one sounds serious:

#03-09-41-003A Info - Proper Air Bag System Diagnosis and Service - (Feb 9, 2005)

Oh, but I guess that's what the TSB's really are - what to do if you have to make a certain repair. Oh well. Maybe that's why TSB's are written for the tech's, not for consumers to read through, and suddenly cause them to demand work done on their vehicles when no work is required?

Just a thought. But I'm probably a little too cynical this morning - didn't get enough sleep.

[tgagneguam]

Ming, your commentary is well timed. I believe that the main point of your post (as I understand it) is the reason why I don't believe GM's work will ever be done with any of its divisions. The principles of constant improvement suggest that no division's work will ever be over: no GM division will ever be "all set;" no quality score will ever be the endpoint; no design will ever be final; no manufacturing process should ever be instituted in perpetuity. Cadillac is not done with its work. The Aura, Outlook, and Sky are not Saturn's finale. They're more of just a turning point.

[tgagneguam]

I find it funny that so many people are giving wpbharry a hard time for complaining about his frequent problems with his Maxx. While I don't agree with his inference that because his Maxx is having problems (that are similar to other recorded problems in similar vehicle lines from GM in the past) all GM vehicle quality sucks, I do feel for a man who presumably is a fan of the Company and who spent his wages on a GM vehicle and who is now having to make so many trips to the dealership for irritating problems. I'm fairly certain the man has much better things to do with his time than go to a dealership to whine to service reps about "alleged" shakes and rattles and such and then sit in a dealership while technicians spend hours tracking down "nonexistent problems." That just doesn't even make sense.

Everyone knows that I'm a cold, heartless, ornery ****************************, yet even I can feel for the guy. I'd be pissed! And GM should be concerned that another relatively young customer may not purchase another GM vehicle due to his experiences. How much does it cost to bring someone back into the fold once you lost them as a customer? I betcha GM is regretably too familiar with the figures.

[FourOnTheFloor]

I like the idea of keeping cars fresh and interresting, but a styling change every 2 years?? Yeah sure, the malibu needed a new grill, but why change the looks of every car despite consumer opinion? This is America we're talking about, not Japan. I think 4 year product cycles are ideal. GM is getting better at redesigning cars every 4 years, instead of every 7 or 8. GM has also done great with performance packages like SS, Red Line, V-series, even Hummer has special appearance package. But can you imagine a totally new front grill/headlights on the 2009 Saturn Sky? When the car was designed, it was made to look the the best way possible, not just to have a new face thrown on it every couple of years. I think America makes good looking cars, cars with timeless styling that will continue to look good after many years. Japan is different, they make what is interresting at the time, but must be restyled after a few years to catch the latest trend.
Yes, the American market is changing. The best thing for GM to do is shorten product cycles and continue with the special edition packages.

[Jay]

Yeah, that Malibu refresh really worked out well--they took away the only interesting styling aspect of the whole car--the grille. Now it looks plainer than ever and more likely to go unnoticed in a parking lot full of sharp Accords, Mazda 6's, G6's, and Altimas.

Otherwise, good article. Anyone remember the 1980's, when manufacturers left models unchanged for literally the whole decade (i.e. Camaro, Century, Corvette, etc.)? What was up wit that?

[Ming]

Somehow I posted an older version of what I had written yesterday. That'll teach me to write something at 12:30 AM. Went in and pasted the modified version. I even changed the opening line for you wpbharry, to something a little less dramatic.

Couldn'tve said it better myself FunkyPig. And I really worry that GM's many models are one reason why it will have a hard time keeping up with the competition's relentless push "forward" with styling. In the 1950's GM had how many "Pontiac" models? One or two? Three maybe? I recall that there was a single Pontiac car at one point (well I wasn't actually alive then, but I remember seeing advertisements) and that was it. Perhaps that is why it seems like GM has left Planned Styling Obsolescence behind.

[303montecarlo]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

I find it funny that so many people are giving wpbharry a hard time for complaining about his frequent problems with his Maxx. While I don't agree with his inference that because his Maxx is having problems (that are similar to other recorded problems in similar vehicle lines from GM in the past) all GM vehicle quality sucks, I do feel for a man who presumably is a fan of the Company and who spent his wages on a GM vehicle and who is now having to make so many trips to the dealership for irritating problems. I'm fairly certain the man has much better things to do with his time than go to a dealership to whine to service reps about "alleged" shakes and rattles and such and then sit in a dealership while technicians spend hours tracking down "nonexistent problems." That just doesn't even make sense.

Everyone knows that I'm a cold, heartless, ornery ****************************, yet even I can feel for the guy. I'd be pissed! And GM should be concerned that another relatively young customer may not purchase another GM vehicle due to his experiences. How much does it cost to bring someone back into the fold once you lost them as a customer? I betcha GM is regretably too familiar with the figures.

The thing is he lives in south Florida ,drives like the Florida drivers do.The pot holes are sink holes and from the sound of it he has been of the road in alligator Allie,but you know him ?Then how can you say this is a GM or dealer problem?

[plane]

Originally Posted by Jay

Yeah, that Malibu refresh really worked out well--they took away the only interesting styling aspect of the whole car--the grille. Now it looks plainer than ever and more likely to go unnoticed in a parking lot full of sharp Accords, Mazda 6's, G6's, and Altimas.

Otherwise, good article. Anyone remember the 1980's, when manufacturers left models unchanged for literally the whole decade (i.e. Camaro, Century, Corvette, etc.)? What was up wit that?

Agreed with everything except part of the comment about the Accord. Foreign manufacturers screw up too- case in point - the Accord. Why was the back 1/4 has been completely redone? Because it was awful and was hurting sales.

Lesson for GM - Look at the sales figures. Where are the new sales largely derived from? Your newest, freshest products. Build new, stylish, attractive, reliable, safe, economical, long-lasting vehicles and people will buy them.

[bdubsee]

Originally Posted by wpbharry

I'll reply intelligently tomorrow after I have time to digest.

But the opening line "GMs quality is soaring" is pathetic. Soaring into what? The dumpster?

I am anxiously awaiting your "intelligent" reply.

[sigma]

Maintaining as many brands and models as GM does, will make it hard for them to refresh each vehicle every 2-3 years. However because they offer so many competiting vechicles on the same platform (i.e. Malibu, G6, Aura on EpI and Impala, Grand Prix, and LaCrosse on W-Body), each one of those could be considered a refresh of an existing model.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see each GM car, truck and SUV undergo some significant revisions in the looks department (especially when they need it) every 2-3 years. I just don't think that's possible today when GM only controls about 25% of the market to just the expense. All of which leads us back to the whole, do they have too many brands arguement.

[MaxLegroom]

Just about everyone has missed the infuriating truth in all this about planned obsolescence. The Japanese learned their lessons from us and learned them well.

[Ming]

Sigma, I'm so depressed by your Avatar. Hehe, finally saw the movie last night. Good stuff.

Maintaining as many brands and models as GM does, will make it hard for them to refresh each vehicle every 2-3 years. However because they offer so many competiting vechicles on the same platform (i.e. Malibu, G6, Aura on EpI and Impala, Grand Prix, and LaCrosse on W-Body), each one of those could be considered a refresh of an existing model.

That is another way of looking at it and I have considered it. But will people on the street see the new Impala as a "fresh new Grand Prix"? Or the LaCrosse? I kind of doubt it. Instead people will see a single car that has gone largely untouched for 4-5 years, and the brand image will be damaged.

[Cortazzo]

GM absolutely needs to speed up its refresh cycle. It keeps the same vehicle in service for 5 or 6 years with only minor equipment additions and paint colors. If you lease a car, you are not going to lease the same exact car you just returned after 3 or 4 years just so it's 'new'. Wonder why GMs old SUV sales declined so much? Everyone who wanted a gmt800 already got one, or two in their garage already. These buyers started looking at newer competing models. Now that GM finally introduces hot new goods, the buyers come flooding back.

Ford is a far worse criminal in this regard though, while GM leaves the same exact model on lots for 5-6 years, Ford actually spends money to refresh products that look exactly like they did before! Look at the focus, lincoln ls, town car, explorer, escape, mountaineer, etc etc etc. Thank God they had a management shakeup because the decisions being made were just so bad it makes me sick sometimes. And thank God GM is finally making some truly hot new products that need no excuses or rebates to sell, here's to many more of those.

BMW has the right idea, they introduce their new engines and transmissions during the last year or two of a products cycle to keep interest or a new M model, then follow the next year with an all new model to wrap around the just developed powertrain.

[asim]

Very good editorial, the Japanese are updating their cars very frequently (the updated 2006 Accord, and the revised looking Mazda 3, to name a few). GM needs to just spend a little money every few years for a certain product to update it, to make it visually different from the years before. GM better start updating or fall behind evenmore.

This will also help solve problems like when GM launches a good product, and it's the best for a year or two, then the competitors blow it out the water. A good example is the Colbalt (it was good when it came out, then the new Civic came out...and now it looks outdated).

[asim]

It looks like GM is reading Ming's comments. xD

I found this is ChevroletRevived's Crossover thread.

Originally Posted by sigma

And apparently the Theta's are going to recieve some extensive mechanical revisions for MY2007.

Chassis / Powertrain
1. New 4 wheel disc brakes & chrome wheels
2. Suspension tuning and the addition of standard "Stabilitrack" have improved the ride and handling
3. Larger fuel tank on Front Wheel Drive vehicles has improved their range.
4. New tire pressure monitoring system provides information to the driver's display panel.

Interior
1. New rear seat centre armrest
2. Roof rail airbag deploys further providing additional protection in the event of a roll over. (note- roof rail is a term we use in Welding..it is a interior part running alongside the sides of the passenger compartment.)
3. "Smart" front passenger airbag system now senses the weight of the occupant and deploys the airbag accordingly.
4. New steering wheel, centre console trim, switches, shifter and seat fabric have improved the appearence of the interior.
5. The instrument panel now includes a "Driver Information Center" display which provides information on engine performance, tire pressure etc...

Structures, Exterior & Electrical
1. Strengthened side body components have improved the overall vehicle performance and exceed 2008 MY (model year) Government requirement.
2. New lift gate "touch pad" electronic release replaces the tradtional release handle system
3. New lift gate spolier & fascia shapes provide improved aerodynamics for a "real world" fuel economy savings of 1 mpg.
4. Improvements made to reduce wind noise by 3db
5. New remote start option
6. New "navigation" radio

http://www.equinoxcentral.com/forums...=4793&start=30
via Cheers and Gears.