GMI's Revitalization in Action: Commentary: 9-9x

[mgescuro]

Commentary – GMI Revitalization in Action

Saab 9-9x

In the 1990’s, GM, realizing the success BMW was having with a sporty full-sized car in the 7-series, decided that it’s best option was to create one of its own. What was GM’s brilliant idea? To build a full-sized 7-series competitor – European, performance oriented, sporty luxury. Only problem? Saab was a mid-sized FWD platform that wasn’t as extensible as originally thought/hoped/planned.
Of course. That’s GM for you.

Which brings us to the premium luxury sedan market. The way I see this market, there are 2 segments,You’ve got full-sized sport sedans, led by the 750i, and you’ve got full-sized luxury sedans, led by the S550.



Sport Sedans

• BMW 750i
• Audi A8
• Jaguar XJ
• Maserati Quattroporte
• Mercedes CLS500

Luxury Sedans

• Mercedes S550 / S600
• Audi A8L
• BMW 760Li
• Lexus LS600h
• Bentley Flying Spur

It is this bifurcation of the premium sedan segment that I believe that a Saab 9-9x is a potential competitor and solid alternative in this marketplace, slotting into the Sport Sedan segment.

A Saab 9-9x would offer “something different” to a market already crowded by S-Classes, 7-Series, A8’s and XJ’s. This time, instead of German teutonic style, British traditionalism, or Italian flair, the 9-9x will offer Swedish sportiness, sleekness, and sensibilities.

The 9-9x would not extend past the $80,000 price barrier. Its main competition would be the sportier alternatives to this market segment, sized similarly to a 750i with the sporting character of an XJR or Quattroporte. This makes sense, as there are rumors of Jaguar creating a car that supersedes the XJ and would be far more luxurious.

What About Cadillac?

Well, what about Cadillac? The 9-9x entering the premium sport sedan market should be of no consequence for Cadillac. Cadillac is a luxury marque. Cadillac makes luxury cars. So there is no problem for Cadillac to build a luxury sedan to compete with S-Class. And should Cadillac choose to raise STS’s stature, it still won’t compete with 9-9x, as STS is distinctly American.

Is This the Right Car for Saab

I guess the question would be, why wouldn’t it be? I believe Saab can raise the bar with a competent challenger to this marketplace. If done correctly, using Saab’s design philosophies, Saab’s renowned reputation for safety, innovation, and engineering, plus a whole host of new technologies that enhances driver interaction and feel, then a 9-9x can really be an effective challenger in this segment.

Should Saab Do It?

This is the tricky question here. As much as I would love to have the 9-9x, I would much rather Saab solidify 9-1, 9-3, 9-5. And THEN, let’s think of the 9-9x.
I do have a lot of faith in this segment, and I believe this is growth opportunity in this segment, with the right product.

[asim]

Wow! Thats nice. I like the idea of the "sporty" large car for Saab, and a luxury one for Cadillac. This really would help define some brand identity for the two brands.

The only thing is that it looks like this will bring Saab upscale really fast. Maybe they should take smaller steps first, and then bring this out.

[ocmdog]

I like the ideology behind this. I was beginning to wonder if it might interfere with Cadillac, but if clearly defined with a distinct identity and purpose it should do fine.

I agree with soldifying the core models before moving on.

[CobaltSScrazy]

nice commentary, definitely concur. Not past 80k, Cadillac gets a version and they split the development costs. Make them distinct like solstice and sky but more variation like the Epsilon products and then we can talk. Do it right or don't do it, is my motto. But I do agree, unless you have a luxury car in this segment you are not truly a Tier1 Luxury maker in the world, no matter what other products you have.

[FBODYRULES]

a car like this really would make people look at the whole saab brand in a new way

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

... But I do agree, unless you have a luxury car in this segment you are not truly a Tier1 Luxury maker in the world, no matter what other products you have.

I totally agree

[DuSpinnst]

I like the idea of such a car. Although I think it should be more like an S80 and an A8 than a 7-Series.

I'd prefer FWD, V8 Turbo. Also so what if the 9-7X is an SUV now, call it that.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

I like the idea of such a car. Although I think it should be more like an S80 and an A8 than a 7-Series.

I'd prefer FWD, V8 Turbo. Also so what if the 9-7X is an SUV now, call it that.

S80 is a mid-sizer.
FWD V8 TUrbo? You couldn't achieve the necessary HP to get a decently performing car in that class.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

S80 is a mid-sizer.
FWD V8 Turbo? You couldn't achieve the necessary HP to get a decently performing car in that class.

By FWD, I mean FWD based AWD. The S80 is a Full-Size IMHO.

If there is any car that Saab should emulate OTHER THAN the S80 it is the A8. Which is FWD based AWD, even though the engine is mounted longitudinally, everyone knows Audi/VW are all FWD based designs.

In my opinion the 9-9X looks "tacked" on to the line-up it doesn't fit in with the naming scheme, and frankly while I like the idea of a Saab Flagship, I don't like this 9-9X idea at all.

I'd seriously prefer a stronger 9-5 as the Flagship. Saab does not need to break $60,000 in the US.

RWD anything is a ****************************ization of the Saab Brand. It is the only thing I dislike about the 9-7X, and I think that and the lack of a Turbo on that car is what makes it "un-Saab" like to most people.

Saab is FWD, Turbo, and Quirky.

[jbartley]

if this was zeta-based, would it get full time awd/4wd?

and what is the general base price estimation?


and to those posts above, who wants a FWD luxury flagship? Audi gets away with it b/c of the audi marque and luxury. Not b/c it's FWD based.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

By FWD, I mean FWD based AWD. The S80 is a Full-Size IMHO.

If there is any car that Saab should emulate OTHER THAN the S80 it is the A8. Which is FWD based AWD, even though the engine is mounted longitudinally, everyone knows Audi/VW are all FWD based designs.

In my opinion the 9-9X looks "tacked" on to the line-up it doesn't fit in with the naming scheme, and frankly while I like the idea of a Saab Flagship, I don't like this 9-9X idea at all.

I'd seriously prefer a stronger 9-5 as the Flagship. Saab does not need to break $60,000 in the US.

RWD anything is a ****************************ization of the Saab Brand. It is the only thing I dislike about the 9-7X, and I think that and the lack of a Turbo on that car is what makes it "un-Saab" like to most people.

Saab is FWD, Turbo, and Quirky.

I disagree. I believe a no-holds-barred 9-9x would be a solid addition to the Saab lineup. Is it necessary? Nope. A 9-5 can easily be the range topper. But the fact is, the idea has been floated at GM for a while. Saab already has the global reach that Cadillac simply won't have for at least anotehr decade.

And if you look at the RIA lineup, there are no RWD cars at all. FWD or AWD.

Originally Posted by jbartley

if this was zeta-based, would it get full time awd/4wd?

and what is the general base price estimation?


and to those posts above, who wants a FWD luxury flagship? Audi gets away with it b/c of the audi marque and luxury. Not b/c it's FWD based.

A base 9-9x, I would estimate would have a base MSRP of about $62,000. That would undercut XJ8 by $2,000 or so. A fully loaded 9-9x Aero would be around $78,000.... $3,500 less than XJR.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

And if you look at the RIA lineup, there are no RWD cars at all. FWD or AWD.

Zeta is a RWD chassis, so that means the car is RWD based AWD. Not the same thing as FWD based AWD even A8 Longitudinally FWD Based AWD.

I think Saab should stick with Transverse Engines anyway. I just don't like the idea of a RWD based AWD system, it doesn't sit well with me.

[gotz_otto]

Originally Posted by asim

Wow! Thats nice. I like the idea of the "sporty" large car for Saab, and a luxury one for Cadillac. This really would help define some brand identity for the two brands.

The only thing is that it looks like this will bring Saab upscale really fast. Maybe they should take smaller steps first, and then bring this out.

I think Saab needs to put their foot in the pool before they jump in. They need to get a feel for the water and do it right the first time. I would love to see Saab move in on BMW and others more.

[AdmiralViscen]

No one would buy it.

[t-rex]

I'm still iffy on this. While I love the 9-9x, I'm also one of these types who believes unique brands like Saab should, above anything, adhere to its heritage. Not to the degree that the company goes under, mind you. Change is, and always will be, necessary for survival.

Nonconformity is the heart and soul of Saab. Distinctive. Individual. Unmistakable. Even quirky. But part of Saab's character was its unpretentious approach to sensibility. Function over form. A car so unique, it defied being compared to others. Think back to the old 95, 99, 900 etc. Was there anything on the planet to compare these cars to? Citroen at a stretch.

The only argument I have against the 9-9x would be that it may appear to be playing "me too" to the Teutonic trio, which would in effect be going somewhat against Saab's tradition of nonconformity. On the other hand, if I had $80k to spend.... guess what would be on the top of my shopping list? It just might would make its way to the top of a LOT of buyers' lists too. As someone posted elsewhere, S-classes, 7 series, and LS's are actually commonplace in well-heeled areas. A car like the 9-9x might just be the ticket to providing exclusivity within exclusivity.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by t-rex

The only argument I have against the 9-9x would be that it may appear to be playing "me too" to the Teutonic trio, which would in effect be going somewhat against Saab's tradition of nonconformity. On the other hand, if I had $80k to spend.... guess what would be on the top of my shopping list? It just might would make its way to the top of a LOT of buyers' lists too. As someone posted elsewhere, S-classes, 7 series, and LS's are actually commonplace in well-heeled areas. A car like the 9-9x might just be the ticket to providing exclusivity within exclusivity.

But it's not conceived to be a "Me too" sports sedan.
It should be handled in its own Saab-like way. The XJ does its own thing, and is a respect member of that market segment. THe Quattroporte does its own thing as well. IT's also a newcomer to that market segment.

Yes. S and 7 dominate this segment. NO question about that. But no matter how dominant, XJ and Quattroporte have their own fan base. Do they sell? Oh you bet. Not in the same amounts as the S or 7... but enough.

If done right... a 9-9x can be a trojan horse in this market.
If 9-9x Aero existed today... and I had $80,000... I wouldn't even think twice about going to the local Jaguar dealer for an XJR.