GM Year In Review 2007

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Hi mkaresh and Happy Holidays,

I often see comments like this. Total Cost of ownership is how I evaluate cars I am interested in and on average over 4-5 years ownership all luxury models fair closely together, when you consider purchase price with comparative features, insurance, maintenance, retained value and fuel cost. Cadillac in my review of the STS V8/STS-V and XLR/XLR-V fair right in line with Mercedes-Benz's SL500/SL55 AMG/CLS55/CLS55 AMG and Jaguar XK/XKR of the cars I listed in my final list of purchase.

JLM

In many of these cases I think you're correct about the depreciation not being far off the norm. Some of the AMG models also drop like a rock, and I've recommended the S-Type R as a very good used car value. On the other hand, I think the regular E-Class holds its value quite a bit better than the STS.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

In many of these cases I think you're correct about the depreciation not being far off the norm. Some of the AMG models also drop like a rock, and I've recommended the S-Type R as a very good used car value. On the other hand, I think the regular E-Class holds its value quite a bit better than the STS.

Hi mkaresh,

I would agree, but as part of my evaluation, I include purchase price and other components that cost me real dollars in total cost of the vehicle. So, for example if I pay $18,000.00 more for an E Class V8 simular optioned to the Cadillac STS V8, plus insurance and premium versus regular fuel cost over 5 years, it all adds to the totol cost of ownership. Also consider, what you actually pay for the Cadillac STS V8. Are there discounts on list price and financing options, remember it is your purchase that directly impacts your real retained value.

JLM

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Hi Buick61,

Compared to what by category and do you have a preference in categories?

JLM

As a drivers Crossover SUV, it's great. For daily living, it's not so great.

From the Chevy-sourced key-fob and key, to the non-telescoping, manual tilting (with widely spaced notches) steering column, to the seat belts in the seatbacks instead of on the B-pillar, to the cheap-o multifunction stalks, to the same cruise control mechanism that's in my 1996 Fleetwood, to the lack of remote-start, to the quality of materials beyond the new dash (like the overhead console), to the way the transmission doesn't "creep" or pull the vehicle forward/backward at idle, to the lack of a proper iPod connection, to the lack of Bluetooth, to the unsightly gap between the bottom of the doors on the outside, to the so-so quality paint, to the absurdly poor placement of the door lock pulls, to the temperamental power rear-tailgate, and to the excessive weight, which has caused some abysmal mpg results the truck isn't ready for the big-leagues.

I'm sure there's more.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Since becoming a Cadillac owner, I have had a wonderful experience with both of my Cadillac cars, Cadillac and the service levels from my Cadillac Saab dealership. It has been simply and exceptional experience, a Cadillac experience.

JLM

Guess you bought "The Cadillac of cars" then

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by Buick61

As a drivers Crossover SUV, it's great. For daily living, it's not so great.

From the Chevy-sourced key-fob and key, to the non-telescoping, manual tilting (with widely spaced notches) steering column, to the seat belts in the seatbacks instead of on the B-pillar, to the cheap-o multifunction stalks, to the same cruise control mechanism that's in my 1996 Fleetwood, to the lack of remote-start, to the quality of materials beyond the new dash (like the overhead console), to the way the transmission doesn't "creep" or pull the vehicle forward/backward at idle, to the lack of a proper iPod connection, to the lack of Bluetooth, to the unsightly gap between the bottom of the doors on the outside, to the so-so quality paint, to the absurdly poor placement of the door lock pulls, to the temperamental power rear-tailgate, and to the excessive weight, which has caused some abysmal mpg results the truck isn't ready for the big-leagues.

I'm sure there's more.

Buick61,

Thats sounds reflective and what luxury brand model did you compare by category that was better to your requirements?

JLM

[Tony's BlkGTP]

Originally Posted by Buick61



SRX and Escalade are trucks.


Clearly Buick61, I don't think you know all that you say you do. The Escalade is based off the Tahoe and Suburban, but the SRX is based off the previous version of the CTS. Last time I check, the CTS is not a truck. Therefore, that makes the SRX are crossover, not a truck.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by Tony's BlkGTP

Originally Posted by Buick61



SRX and Escalade are trucks.


Clearly Buick61, I don't think you know all that you say you do. The Escalade is based off the Tahoe and Suburban, but the SRX is based off the previous version of the CTS. Last time I check, the CTS is not a truck. Therefore, that makes the SRX are crossover, not a truck.

GM classifies it as a truck, the government classifies it as a truck, it's marketed as an SUV. SUVs are trucks, whether they're based on cars or not. It's just semantics.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by Buick61

As a drivers Crossover SUV, it's great. For daily living, it's not so great.

<snip />

to the seat belts in the seatbacks instead of on the B-pillar,

Isn't that more of a personal preference sort of thing?

to the way the transmission doesn't "creep" or pull the vehicle forward/backward at idle,

That's probably the thing I dislike the most about a lot of GM's latest vehicles.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by cdp326

Isn't that more of a personal preference sort of thing?

Seems it's a widespread enough preference that GM chucked them for the new CTS. Or maybe this was done to save mass. The other problem with attaching the belts to the seat is that the seat frame must then be very strong, which means heavy.

[FenwickHockey65]

I find that having the seat belts built into the seatbacks in my Envoy are actually more comfortable for me than in the B-pillar. It really just is a matter of personal preference. Some people like it, some people don't.

[cdp326]

To me the seat-mounted shoulder belts don't sound like a very Cadillac sort of thing. On vehicles like the trucks/SUVs, the Bonneville, yes, but not really the CTS.

[SHOWMAN]

Originally Posted by Buick61

See above.

I love how you thrash everyone else. It ponders one's mind to how you dont give credit were it is due. I do recall chevy being GM's main squeeze or are you not reading motortrend or automobile. It's called give credit where it is due and for the rest let the engineers have atleast some postive knowing to continue

[BusyBody]

Thanks for the commentary NSAP. It was a good read. Yes GM is not perfect (as some here love to point out and feed upon), BUT they have made strides, and it is with hope that they continue to improve and thrive once again.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by SHOWMAN

I love how you thrash everyone else. It ponders one's mind to how you dont give credit were it is due. I do recall chevy being GM's main squeeze or are you not reading motortrend or automobile. It's called give credit where it is due and for the rest let the engineers have atleast some postive knowing to continue

Thrash everyone else? Are you talking people or cars?

I gave credit where it's due: Enclave, Corvette, CTS, Malibu. It's not due for the entire lineup. How is Chevy GM's "main squeeze?" If that were true, we'd be seeing more new cars coming out of the division, and that's not the case. The last totally new car to come out of Chevy was when the HHR came out, and before that it was the Cobalt in CY2004. GM does a much needed refresh of the Malibu on a 4 year old platform and all of a sudden GM is fawning all over Chevy? Not so much.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by Smaart Aas Saabr

Guess you bought "The Cadillac of cars" then

Hi Smaart Aas Saabr and Happy Holidays,

Yes, my experience has been superb with Cadillac. I also had a wonderful experience with Lexus. I have a neighbor, who owns a BMW 545i and 911 and we compare our cars all the time and share in driving seat time to Bear Mountain, one of my favorite sport drives. I have always been a fan of BMW and Porsche for their products and I am more so today by this experience. But for what ever reason, in the past, Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus, Saab, Volvo, Acura and Infiniti were of little interest to me. But in my quest to purchase my best in class sports car and performance luxury sports sedan, I discovered a very eye opening fact. All of these luxury brands build some very impressive products and they are all competitive with each other, depending on the requirements of the luxury buyer.

My first acknowledgement of Cadillac was with their Evoq concept and then the Cadillac Cien concept was revealed. I was so impressed with these two concept cars, I began to consider Cadillac’s new Art and Science design theme and I reviewed their first model, the Cadillac CTS and quite honestly, I was somewhat uneasy with its styling. Then the Cadillac XLR was announced and its style and design took my breath away, so to speak. I was absolutely captivated, but at the time I was not looking for a sports car, but more interested in a midsize luxury sports sedan and BMW’s 545i was at the top of my list. If I had gone only on my past impression and not performed a detailed evaluation, I have no doubt I would have purchased a BMW 545i. Later the Cadillac STS was announced and I was awestruck by its style, design, performance, technologies and systems integration and that was the beginning of what turns out to be a wonderful relationship, as they say.

However, what is a hallmark to my thinking for GM and Cadillac is that just a few short years ago; Cadillac was not on my list of consideration as a luxury brand. In a moment, that all changed with their Art and Science design theme and the production of the STS and XLR models for me. And the STS-V and XLR-V offered something I would not have even thought possible for Cadillac, a high performance luxury line of products that provide an exquisite balance of performance, luxury, advance technology and systems integration competitive with the world’s very best and uniquely Cadillac. This is the real life story of merit in my view.

JLM