GM: Time to Consolidate

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Maetrix66

Kill Pontiac. But keep GMC?

GMC makes GM money and is it's third largest division by volume. Even if that is dropping it's still going to make money and stay big for a while to come.

Originally Posted by Maetrix66

If Pontiac had gotten the funding it needed (instead of the golden child Saturn) then the obvious answer would be to kill Saturn.

Pontiac didn't get the funding it needed. It will never get the funding it needs. At best it will be paired down to three or four proper models, but it's years and years away from even being a proper niche brand. Pontiac dealers keep screaming for cars they can sell in volume(G5, Torrent, the Wave in Canada) and GM keeps providing them with rebadged Chevies. This shows to me without a doubt that GM either doesn't have a plan for Pontiac or doesn't have the guts to carry it out.

[drew770]

Originally Posted by logansowner

Buick = Give the Enclave to Caddy and call it a day
SAAB = Crazy expensive, and nobody buys them anyway
HUMMER = Dumb idea from the start, and every gas increase makes it more irrelevant
Chevy = Obviously safe, the bread and butter
Pontiac = On the fence, lots of brand love, but for every plus (G8)they add a negative (Aveo clone)
GMC= Profitable, but could simply become an upper trim on Chevy trucks
Saturn= Doomed by nobody knowing about it, everything they sell could be divided up between remaining brands.

GM could have quicker model turn arounds and lower marketing costs if they were just Caddy, Chevy and Pontiac.

Great idea and by GM doing this there will be so many pluses.
Of course there will be hurt feelings for the loyalists but loyalists are the only folks buying and that is not enough to justify keeping the brand.
The Buick name will live in China where it is profitable and well liked. The Enclave would be an excellent Caddy just change the grill and upgrade the interior.
Everyone must acknowledge that GM does not have the resources and the talent to maintain these brands in the way we want them to.
Its sad but the auto industry has change and so did American tastes.
Focus on your core brands and make them the best you can!!

[tollytime]

I was always against consolidation for GM, but since they have done such a lousy job since 1978 of making brands unique and distinct, it's time to get rid of the dead wood. The public perception of GM being a company that builds cars on the cheap with no imagination has taken it's toll. Pontiac with it's Torrent, G5, and G3 are obviously Chevrolets sporting a different grille. It's pretty pathetic for an industry leader to only invest 50 bucks on a badge to differentiate a product line.
I could go on and on about GM's lousy product planning and obsolete designs, but the buying public has made it obvious they won't stand for it anymore.
GM does have some nice stuff, but it's scattered through the different lineups. The random product placement of superior products in neglected distribution channels is certain doom for new vehicles from the start. Of course I'm talking about vehicles like the Enclave and the G8. Both vehicles are thrown into a dealer network that is either dead or dying.
GM has to concentrate on consolidating their dealer network first. Dealers with sagging brands are cash strapped and morale is low. I'm not sure how they could tackle these problems given that franchise laws vary from state to state.
Whatever GM is doing, it's not working.

[drew770]

Originally Posted by babyfacedkayos

Its almost IMPOSSIBLE 4 GMC to NOT make money. They cant have 2 many stand alone dealerships, and they have NO exclusive product.

GMC IS THE POSTER CHILD FOR BADGE ENGINEERING!!!
They sell a nicer Tahoe, nicer Suburban, and nicer Outlook.

My grandmother could make $$ running GMC

And i would like 2 thank mgescuro for deciding GM shouldnt exist. Who needs Cadillac, and Hummer, and Saab, and Pontiac... Buick sucks...
I have an idea... LETS CLOSE ALL THE BRANDS! I'd love to know what does he love that ISNT GERMAN.
Warren Buffet thinks the Cadillac DTS is worthy of driving a BILLIONAIRE around... but according 2 some of mgescuro's posts.... he would call him a moron and spit in his face...
OK.... rant over.... real question time....

Can GM even sell HUMMER? Doesn't HUMMER owe its existence 2 initially issuing a civilian version of military tech? GM has all kind of gov't contracts and i doubt selling HUMMER would make even the democrats happy!!! LOL
General Electric couldnt just up and sell some of its divisions to foreign companies due to silly little entanglements known as national security, and the greater good. Just a thought.... anybody know if the gov't would have a fit if GM tried 2 unload HUMMER???

The govt has nothing to do with HUMMER of GM. The true HUMMER or HUMVEE is produced by AM General and they have the govt. contracts and not GM. GM owns no part of AM General.

[MOGI]

GM should get all the brands healthy, then if need be, look at spinning them off much like ford has done with most of the premier group. No-one is going to pay a lot for a so-so brand with minimal customer base. But i think that once they're differentiated enough and establish their own identities, this brand reduction argument will fade. There would be customer's, and hopefully profits as a result. 8 brands can be done, but I question the companies resolve to do what it takes....

[Ming]

I understand the sentiment and agree with a lot of the points here.

But I still think that GM does not need to think in the old terms of Brand=Dealership. Like Toyota shares its dealerships with Scion, a Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership can make sense, as long as there is absolutely no overlap in product, and I mean as far as not allowing a LaCrosse and Grand Prix to exist at the same dealership. Decide which brand gets the ho-hum midsizer and stick with it. Certainly not an Acadia and Enclave. Pick one. Acadia is irrelevant when Chevy will offer a very similar vehicle and Saturn has one too. The Enclave is the most unique among the GM reskins, so that would make sense to keep. But no Acadias on the same lot.

For all practical purposes, B-P-G should be treated as a single brand. Same with Cadillac-Hummer-Saab dealerships. And GM needs to make clear that it is not a temporary passing of fancy at GM -- that Buick Pontiac GMC will forever be merged into a single unit. If one falls, they all go.

Any dealer who has brands grandfathered in - in some different way - like Buick/Cadillac - must deal with potential holes in their offerings, or buy in to the new brand alignments.

This way when BPG advertises new mid-size crossover SUVs, they are not splitting their advertising budget into two - or three different vehicles. There will be either one Buick or one GMC mid-size crossover.

Where the axe needs to fall is on single brand (other than Chevy) dealerships. It is true that GM can no longer afford to give a vehicle of every type to its many brands, lest GM be ultimately tempted to repeat such rebadging horrors as the CSV minivan quartet (Terraza, Uplander, Relay, Montana SV6).

If this still doesn't make sense to you, think of it like this --- how could you take the existing Chevy lineup and split it into three distinct brands? Where would Corvette go? (Pontiac) Where would the HHR go? (GMC) Where would the Impala go? (Buick) Now, why can't three brands make a whole at BPG? It's just naming and badging.

No more single brand Pontiac or Buick dealers. Make it happen. GM won't lose the customers it lost to import brands when it killed Oldsmobile.

But there must be a hard rule. NO OVERLAP PRODUCT in combined brand dealerships. And fewer Chevy reskins. BPG must not become a mirror brand for Chevrolet with Buicks that are only slightly different from Chevies in styling and a little "quiet tuning". GMC is bad enough as it is, and with big trucks down in sales, the once strong argument for GMC is wearing thin when you consider that GMC eats into the Chevy truck advertising budget. If that means paring down the selection of vehicles for GMC, then do it.

In totality, a BPG dealership should have the same amount of models available as at a Chevy dealer. And this can happen if Pontiac stops selling minivans, cute utes, and sedate family sedans and leaves that up to Buick (and GMC for the cute ute).

When an old-think customer comes in and says "I want a Pontiac SUV", then politely point out that GM has merged Pontiac-Buick-GMC into single dealerships, and did you see the crossover SUV GMC offers over here? Or that new Buick wagon? The models should be a stone's throw away on the showroom floor, and an effort should be made to sell cross brand to old single brand loyalists.

[gardnet1]

I would make Hummer a sub-division of GMC and just provide niche vehicles but that might cost more because of the dealership consolidations than selling them off.

Saab you could just sell or consolidate with Pontiac, as in Pontiac rebadges Saab vehicles in NA and Saab only sells in Europe and select other markets. Pontiac could also be just a fleet brand for commercial and rental cars so that the residuals of Chevy and others are protected.

Saab is the biggest money pit right now as they have never made money for GM. GMC on the other hand has consistently been the 2nd most profitable division since the falling of Olds.

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by Maetrix66

Articles like this really piss me off.

I'm sorry NSAP, I know your heart is in the right place, but I think you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Kill Pontiac. But keep GMC?

Let's see. Pontiac is a CAR brand.
GMC is a Chevy truck rebadge factory.

People aren't moving from cars to trucks, it's the other way around. I agree with Saab and Hummer. I understand the global implications behind keeping Buick.

If Pontiac had gotten the funding it needed (instead of the golden child Saturn) then the obvious answer would be to kill Saturn. Their dealer network is almost completely seperate. I actually still think that it is a better idea to give Pontiac a reskinned Astra, reskinned Aura AWD, and the Volt variant.

But I still think that GMC should be reduced to what it should have been all along, a trim level on Chevy trucks. Truck sales are going to start plummeting, not car sales. If GM can sink an entire new lineup into Saturn, they can do the same for Pontiac.

I don't mind GM wringing every last GMC truck sale they can before dumping it, but come on. Do you really see GMC as being a better candidate to remain profitable in the future than Pontiac?? The cache' that GMC trucks hold over Chevy is equivalent to owning a SS vehicle over the base model.

In my town, we have a GMC dealership accross the street from our Chevy one. You can literally see people crossing the street both ways if they don't like the others trade figure. The difference is so miniscule between the two brands. If GM kills GMC, MOST of the GMC drivers will buy a Chevy, especially since with the GMT900's the similarities have returned.

If they kill Pontiac, they will lose far more sales, and the buyers won't come back to GM. They'll go to Mitsu or Subaru or BMW or Dodge.

Close GMC, and CONSOLIDATE the flagging truck market. Do it now, or pay the price.

Agreed........fold GMC into Chevy. Saturn has never gotten the proper attention it needed and many of it's vehicles can be successfully integrated into other brands, if not killed outright.

Get rid of Hummer and Saab......as both have become completely irrelevant.....one because of gas prices/CAFE and the other from benign neglect. Think of the money you could get for Saab from a sugar daddy like BMW.....

Killing Pontiac has got to be one of the most idiotic things I've heard. I don't say that out of any sense of brand loyalty either......it's because I completely agree with the bolded paragraph.....there aren't many brands left that have a decidedly 'performance' kind of flavor.....what do you think will happen when Pontiac goes? People will flock to a 4-banger Camaro and FWD Impala SS? Hell no! They'll buy 'Stangs, Challengers, Chargers, Evos, STi's.....not to mention the Genesis, Civic Si and whatever else the imports can fork up.....

[88Fiero]

Stupid! Sell cheby instead

[tollytime]

Originally Posted by MOGI

GM should get all the brands healthy, then if need be, look at spinning them off much like ford has done with most of the premier group. No-one is going to pay a lot for a so-so brand with minimal customer base. But i think that once they're differentiated enough and establish their own identities, this brand reduction argument will fade. There would be customer's, and hopefully profits as a result. 8 brands can be done, but I question the companies resolve to do what it takes....

That's a good idea, but anyone thinking about buying a GM division will look carefully at the exsisting dealer network. A lot of GM Dealerships are falling apart and don't have money to remodel. They lack quality employees due to the fact their business has lacked sales for so many years. I can't even walk into some of the Pontiac stores in my town. The GM dealerships in the Detroit Metro area are old and rundown. The employees are slobs with no people skills.

When I was buying a Saturn, my salesperson was late to work and the manager told me to come back and pickup my car later. My salesperson showed up wearing a sweatsuit to deliver my car. The manager didn't understand why I was upset.

Go figure.

[GMC-70]

Here's a thought--how about some of you foreign car nuthuggers get off your high-horse and get out there and see what GM has to offer. You just may be suprised!

It's just amazes me how so many people are willing to sell-out rather then try and take it back. The bottom line is GM will not be any stronger nor will they gain marketshare by axing brands--in fact the opposite is more likely as the general public will take this as GM is going down and may avoid the remaining brands alltogether.

Too many thinkers and not enough doers!

[GTOken]

Ive been a Pontiac owner since 1976. If Pontiac goes, so will my loyalty to GM. I think I speak for a lot of people.

[Markld74]

Yes, GM does need to consolidate. But keep Saturn???? Saturn has been a dud from the beginning. It has wasted Billions, yes, Billions of dollars for GM. I agree 100% that Saab and Hummer need to go, but kill Saturn. Don't believe me, see their days supply in vehicles, it is all in the plus 100 days. Worse then any of the BPG or Chevrolet. Ouch!. KILL SATURN BEFORE IT KILLS GM ANYMORE. (Nothing against Saab & Hummer, both are good brands, but not what GM needs)

What needs to be done then to GMC & Pontiac is making them unique vehicles for a niche market and increase Buick's line-up (3 Sedans, Hardtop Coupe Convertible ala G6 Conv., Small CUV, Enclave and a small wagon) to that of a wide range of front wheel drive luxury at a non-premium price. For GMC make it more the weekend truck & suvs with a more military look (replacing hummer), but not so big in size (G8 ST, H3, etc). For Pontiac make it a small sports brand: keep the Solstice, keep the G8 and create the G8 coupe. Give them a V6, V6 with Supercharger (GT) and do a limited production each year of a GXP (V8). Recreate the G6 as a smaller sedan and coupe that is 4 Cylinder Performance with All wheel Drive (think Saab 9-3). Oh and performance brands have or offer manual transmissions. (Examples: Civic Si, S2000, Subaru WRX, etc).

Keep Chevrolet the same, but add some micro cars to it. Cadillac keep it pretty much the same, but have a car offering that is smaller than the CTS.

The names Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Chevrolet and Cadillac have a place in the market and a respect to them. Saturn does not. (hint: I know a lot of people who work for Saturn Dealers and they refuse to drive Saturns, they all drive Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Cadillacs, Saabs and imports, even the owners of 4 Saturn Dealerships that I know)

KILL SATURN!!!!!!

[Brglotus]

I agree, I think Saab and Hummer need to go (despite how much I liked the product. Keep Pontiac though and change it to either Only performance cars, or a cheap cool cars for young adults like the Scion brand. Kill Saturn, despite me owning an Aura (which I love). The only thing I would keep is Saturns service and use that through the remaining brands. Keep GMC, not much cost there, the Hummer can become a GMC. Buick only needs a few cars and will be in the Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealerships. So GM will be left with Cadillac/Buick/Pontiac/Chevrolet/GMC.

[rwbooth]

Fair comments for the most part.

However, GM claims it spent $1Billion killing Oldsmobile. What would it cost to kill an additional four brands?

I think most people accept NSAP's argument that Gm needs to trim the fat, however, there are two roadblocks. Firstly, how does GM convince its dealer network of the plan? The dealers seem to have a lot of power and have historically been able to influence GM into making poor business decisions (see Pontiac Pursuit). Secondly, if they are going to spend all this money killing brands, is there enough money left over for R&D to develop new cars and trucks, and spruce up the dealer infrastructure?