GM: Time to Consolidate

[Jesda]

GM should listen to customers, not dealers. Sales people like Buickman wanted the Buick Rendezvous to stick around.

[PURPLEIMPALA]

Axe SAAB. Ok. Who cares. Axe Hummer. Ok. Pontiac ? No ! Reduce Pontiac's models to 3 or 4 ? Yes. Pontiac/Buick/GMC needs to reduce the number of models it sells, sure. But killing Pontiac would increase the likelihood of the demise of GM. GM is not just Chevrolet and Cadillac and a bunch of hangers-on. Just because recent management humped it up, does not mean that current management needs to do the same. Think !

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by PURPLEIMPALA

Axe SAAB. Ok. Who cares. Axe Hummer. Ok. Pontiac ? No ! Reduce Pontiac's models to 3 or 4 ? Yes. Pontiac/Buick/GMC needs to reduce the number of models it sells, sure. But killing Pontiac would increase the likelihood of the demise of GM.

What would GM do without Pontiac? I mean as far as if they were to market it as a performance/semi-sporty brand? I don't think that the company would be any better off than Toyota, and they have Scion. Ford has Mazda, Chrysler has nothing-and look at them now... In my opinion, Chevy should have a complete lineup, Buick handles near luxury in 3 models, as Pontiac handles performance in 3-4 models. GMC is simply the truck division of Pontiac and Buick. Cadillac should be cars and crossovers only, Hummer should receive the Escalade and Hummer should be luxury and off roading ability all in one. Saturn should be a niche brand paired with Saab, as a European outlet for Americans. Saab should go back to its roots and draw on its excellent heritage- it should be marketed as a safe and fuel efficent vehicle.

[Lichtronamo]

Yes, that Pontiac G3 is certainly going to be a sports economy car...

[Thrash]

Wow, awesome thread. Everyone has some great points and opinions and I will add mine.

I'm a huge GM fan. I have a 69 Camaro for drag racing and in the process of building a 75 T/A with an LS1. But I did go to the dark side for my commuter. I wanted a small 4-door that was sporty, leather, had a good sounding 4 cylinder, 17" wheels, etc. for autocrossing/road course duty. The Cobalt does not fit this, the Focus does not fit this, forget Dodge. I couldn't get a G6 at the time and in any case I couldn't get a 5 or 6 speed anyway. The Malibu was terrible looking at the time, the new one looks great, but can't get a 5 or 6 speed. The new G8 is very close to what I want except for the V8. I really wanted to buy a GTO at the time(this wa 2004) but I new I'd put mega miles on it and didn't want a 2004 GTO with 100k on the odometer like I have on my car now. BTW, I bought a Mazda3. I love the car, but hate that it's not GM. GM does make what I want now and it's that new Saturn from Opal. Sadly, it's only offered with the 148hp engine. I can go to the autoshow and pick apart what I like and don't like from all manufacturers(to my liking of course). But as I watch GM's market go away to the foreign brands, I can't help but wonder when GM will wake up and humble themselves in order to design cars that appeals to all generations. I wonder out of all the sales GM has, what percentage of those purchased are really from people that like the car, or just diehard GM fans. You take away the fans and loyalists, nothing is left. I hate the fact that I went to the darkside....

My recommendations:

Saab: Nice car, too costly for most. Redo some of the bodywork to make it a Pontiac and there's my car.
Hummer: Forget the gas engine, focus on good mileage diesels and continue on.
Saturn: This was initially a car that was fully independent from GM's other brands. It isn't now and is just like the regular GM brands. This would be the brand to be eco-friendly. I would axe it though(only because I'm not a fan).
Pontiac: Keep it. This is the performance brand. All cars from this lineup should have a manual standard, 4 wheel discs standard, and have optional handling upgrades for people that want to take it to the road course.
Chevrolet: Keep it. This is the low cost brand. I think they should try to go eco-friendly of course and possibly displace Saturn. The Impala is finally right and so is the Malibu(except for no manual transmission option).
Buick: Keep at least for those selling overseas and for those old fogies that buy them here. Otherwise in a generation or two, the brand won't be needed because my generation isn't interested in it.
Cadillac: Keep it. I have a better chance of buying the car I want in this category. V8's and manual transmissions galore! But I can't afford it so no biggie. When you see a Cadillac, you know it's a Cadillac. This is what people should strive to have.

GMC: Keep it. It's just a badge change that's sold at Pontiac.

If I missed anything, it's because it's forgettable....

But it all starts at the core: The car itself. Build me what I want!

[yoblues]

In the end within the next five years the market will determine what stays and what goes at GM.

[seeg]

Aside from the engineering and tech, why kill off Saab when its your only global sport and brand? Even with the large amont of money poured into Cadillac, it's yet to gain acceptance in Europe. Let's not even talk about how Caddy would do in other parts of the global market. At least wait until Saab actually gets product and marketing first.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by seeg

Aside from the engineering and tech, why kill off Saab when its your only global sport and brand? Even with the large amont of money poured into Cadillac, it's yet to gain acceptance in Europe. Let's not even talk about how Caddy would do in other parts of the global market. At least wait until Saab actually gets product and marketing first.

Caddy has the better capacity of being big globally and thus deserves every penny far more than Saab ever will.

[Tornado346]

Originally Posted by logansowner

Buick = Give the Enclave to Caddy and call it a day
SAAB = Crazy expensive, and nobody buys them anyway
HUMMER = Dumb idea from the start, and every gas increase makes it more irrelevant
Chevy = Obviously safe, the bread and butter
Pontiac = On the fence, lots of brand love, but for every plus (G8)they add a negative (Aveo clone)
GMC= Profitable, but could simply become an upper trim on Chevy trucks
Saturn= Doomed by nobody knowing about it, everything they sell could be divided up between remaining brands.

GM could have quicker model turn arounds and lower marketing costs if they were just Caddy, Chevy and Pontiac.

I find this to be the most sensible plan out of all of the ideas being bantered about on here.


Buick is what...more upscale and pricey than the Chevorlet but not as cushy as the Cadillac? C'mon...dump Buick already.

Pontiac...give them the power, handling.....excitement identity and watch them thrive. Oh yeah, incarcerate the people responsible for the Aztek.

Saturn had some buzz about them at the beginning when they were trying to do the whole "different kind of company, different kind of car" thing. I think that is safely gone by the wayside and to be honest I haven't paid attention to how they are doing. Never really had much interest in the Saturns beyond the turbo Sky. Their survival in my mind would depend totally on their sales. If they can keep themselves in the black, fine. If not, gone.

Hummer arguably has worldwide recognition for rugged vehicles. If they were intent on keeping that and wanted to make them more efficient they could maybe be turned around. I don't see GM moving that fast though. That appendage is too damaged to take the time to repair when the patient (GM) is so low on blood already.

GMC has a lot of loyalists despite the fact that Chevrolet and GMC are the same thing. If GM was serious about wanting to keep GMC they would have to get serious about the "We are professional grade" stuff. The Denali option packages are a nice start. Do the Hx as as GMC. Offer more ruggedized versions of the truck lines as GMC. Professional grade, professional strength. Suspensions built a bit more durable than the Chevy. A higher price for a higher-strength (and if desired even more luxurious) product. If all they are going to do to differentiate themselves from Chevy trucks is the Denali line it may as well become a trim package on Chevy trucks.

Soooo, my thoughts are we have:
Chevrolet is a no-brainer, here for good.
Saab: gone.
Hummer: gone
Buick: gone
GMC: get serious on the professional grade or it's gone
Saturn: If they can nicely hold their own, fine. Otherwise, gone
Cadillac: gotta have the upscale brand and let's face it for GM that is Caddy.
Pontiac: give them some true excitement and style, make even the econo cars swift and give them good suspensions.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

I do not care what reason there is for "cost cutting" it will always result in "REVENUE CUTTING" which results in LOST INCOME and leads to LOST MARKET SHARE - Consumers do not want to deal with LOSERS.

What part of Saturn is unprofitable do you not understand?

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by Elk

What part of Saturn is unprofitable do you not understand?

If you ask me Saturn is the single largest mistake made by GM.

It over laps with... ...everything.

[SAngelo]

Well why would you get rid of Saturn when their lineup is the only GM line-up that has a full-line of competitive cars. GM needs to increase the number of Saturn Dealerships. They cut so many Saturn dealerships before they invested in this new line of cars. Now they need to add more. They also need to advertise the brand more and add few more features to the brands lineup. For example the 4 cyl Aura needs a manual and perhaps a 2 mode hybrid. They weight of the Vue also needs to be reduced and the Astra needs a high performance model. In fact the Saturn brand should be the model for the rest of the GM brands. Here is what I would do.

Cadillac -

STS - Either put the SLS interior in the current model or bring the replacement here in the next two years. I would also add DI to the Northstar.

CTS- Awesome car, really no changes. 2 door and wagon will be added

SRX - Replacement is coming

Escalade - 2 mode hybrid is coming, increase fuel efficiency further

Compact small car- Bring it here

XLR - Don't get rid of this car and you dont have to change it now, just give it the CTS interior.

Buick - I was all for dropping Buick but not with their sales overseas. Just have 2 sedans and a crossover and call it a day.

Lacrosse/Regal - The Epsilon II model is coming and seems to be a winner.
Lucerne - The replacement should be rwd and would welcome the Holden Park Avenue/Electra etc.
Enclave - Awesome crossover, but bring us a 2 mode hybrid model

Pontiac - I wanted to get rid of this division but that would worsen the situation. Instead only have a few niche models like Buick.

G8 - This car is terrific. This is the perfect car for Pontiac. Please add the Navigation screen for 2009 and give us the 2 door Monaro and call it the GTO.

Solstice - Keep this car

G6 - I would revise the interior for 2009 (tweak center stack) and then the new model must be rwd or it will overkill of the epsilons.

We dont need a G3 or G4 or G5, this is for the Cobalt and the Astra.

Hummer - I would consider getting rid of Hummer

Saab - Keep it but market it better.

Come on GM !!! Come on GM !!!!

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Elk

What part of Saturn is unprofitable do you not understand?

Actually, I agree with you about Saturn, but think when the public sees a company dropping brands/retail outlets it does more harm than good.

Think you missed my post on Page 7 (#133).

[yoblues]

This is all so irrelivant. Sooner or later the market will determine which GM brands survive but let's have some fun. As for me this will blow your mind. I keep Chevy (GM's Toyota Division) Buick (GM's Lexus Division) and Caddy becomes a niech player like Bently.........Everything else in the US goes.................

[Maki]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteSaab

Being a European I’m likely to be confused with what the majority here agree on. Also with the name of AbsoluteSaab I naturally have an affinity with that brand. If you want to be a big national player then I agree with the remarks made here. However; in order to become a true global player it helps if you have global products. Pontiac, GMC, Cadillac and HUMMER are not Global brands. Cadillac might be GM’s top product but on a global scale it just cannot compete with other luxury brands. It’s a hard pill to swallow for America’s finest but GM needs to do more work in making Caddy desirable in other markets. Especially Europe. The good news it that GM will always find the funds to improve Cadillac and it’s more a case of when.

As for the rest of the brands it’s better to understand what defines them and see their place in a global field. Remember this a view of someone outside the US.

Chevrolet:
It’s only been a couple of years since the brand has become a global player. With the killing of Deawoo in Europe and replacing it with Chevy. The market perception is far more receptive and now that some true Chevy DNA is being injected into the products I have no doubt that Chevy Europe will hit 500,000 units by the end of next year.

Saturn:
Considering that GM created this brand to offer a European styled placebo vehicle at the same point when they bought the real-deal company, Saab; seems a bit illogical but when has GM not been illogical at times. Previous Saturn products fooled nobody but now that they are offering rebadged OPELs I think Saturn will find it’s footing and will become a good competitor to Volkswagen and Ford. GM considered dropping the Vauxhall name many years back and it was estimated at $5Bn to re-market them as OPEL. So having Vauxhall, Holden, OPEL and Saturn does make sense. Further more it cost next to nothing to change the brightwork from OPEL to Vauxhall. I cannot see Saturn being any different.

Buick:
With major foot in Asian markets and I see them as a good competitor to other Asian premium brands. It is without doubt GM needs Buick and with dealers already establishes overseas Buick will make a very good niche brand.

Saab:
From two companies that have fought against each other for the past decade it is no wonder that Saab is in the state that they are in. Saab know best how their product should be marketed and it is only now that GM is finally listening. Saab should never have stopped producing hatchbacks and their yearly production reflects that moving to sedans to please the Americans has had zero impact on global growth. Unfortunately Saab has lost a lot of their character because of it however; with 4 all new products arriving in the same amount years they will regain their footing in a short period of time. They will never be a mainstream brand but that exclusivity too, is a reason why people buy them. Here in Germany most Saab drivers acknowledge each other in the same way Motorcyclists do. Try and think of another brand that has the same cult following? They may not have a high production output but as long as some of their technology can be integrated into other brands It will be more than cost effective to keep the them. Saab have brought a lot of advanced engineering to GM which has been introduced into other brands but not necessarily Saab. If Saab ended up in the hands of Renault for example then this is the technology GM will have to compete against. With the auto industry in a spin on trying to cut fuel consumption, gas emissions by downsizing, selling Saab and their engineering capabilities would not be in the best interest for GM right now.

Cadillac: Out of all of GM’s brands Cadillac is likely the weakest to be accepted as a global brand. It empowers everything about America and with the current political environment there are lot of nations and cultures within those countries who would rather not be associated with a vehicle with such prowess. GM is trying now for the second time to launch Caddy onto the global stage and if Europe is a gauge for other markets, GM has a long and hilly climb ahead of them. However; without Cadillac there may as well be no GM so Caddy belongs with GM’s Global brands.

What about GMC, Pontiac and HUMMER? Personally I’d like to see GMC used a Global Truck devision. None of your half baked SUV stuff real trucks like Scania. Hummer is a premium off-road brand just like Landrover and GM should be looking for ways to get people out of Audi Q7’s, BMW X5s and Landrovers and into HUMMERs. Fuel economy is on the lips of every car manufacturer right now and it is easier to build a hybrid system into a large vehicle than a smaller one. Remember though there are still a lot of people who need a real vehicle to do the job properly and they don’t want to be sat on a tiny, cramped and featureless Landrover defender whilst doing it. Cadillac should stop mucking around wasting money on BOF SUVs and start building top of the range prestige cars. A luxury 7 seater CUV on the hand is an entirely different ball game. Finally Pontiac. There are enough imported firebirds in Europe to show that there is support for a true American performance car. The amount of people who want a Solstice Coupe since watching last years Blockbuster Transformers, actually makes me want to start importing them myself. Also instead of giving Vauxhall the VXR8, GM could of brought Pontiac G8 to Europe. From there Pontiac could be marketed as an affordable RWD performance car. Think BMW with the new OPEL level of quality interior. So you see there is place for all the brands as long as they are defined correctly and the vehicles themselves are engineered enough to really make a difference in driving dynamics. I see Pontiac's future products being marketed as entry level Premium as a niche global performance brand.

Dealer tie-ups:
There is no straight plan on which brands belong together. In Europe for example GM have Chevrolet, OPEL and Saab brands together. In Australia they have Saab, HUMMER and Cadillac. I don’t think it would be good to offer the full range of GM brands under one roof unless the dealership was big enough to have individual sales specialists for each brand then each product could be marketed successfully. If not; then dealers should hone in on what they think would best suit their clients.

Management:
I think that some of GM’s problems come from management level. What you have here is some of the highest paid people who don’t actually produce any direct money for the company. If OPEL, Vauxhall, Saturn and Holden are just as much just rebadges of each other, why is it necessary to have 4 times the amount of managerial staff as Cadillac or Chevrolet. Should GM not look at consolidating management too?

This is what I see on a global scale not just for an American market.

I propose that GM needs 3 Major Global brands that already have world recognition.
These brands are Chevrolet, OPEL (incl. subsidiaries) and Saab.
They a truck division GMC,
and 4 niche All American brands Pontiac, Buick, HUMMER and Cadillac.

Management is streamlined globally under the 3 main global groups.
So For their cars GM would then have 2 similar but clearly defined divisions which both incorporate a ‘step-up’ approach. The Brands are defined in each group too, American and European. If someone wants a Buick they are not likely going to want a Saab instead.
The real big problem in this whole setup is Cadillac. Unfortunately outside of America the brand just flies of the radar. However mixing it in with all the other American brands means that someone in Europe might be interested in a HUMMER H3 but in the end sees what a great car the new CTS 2.9 V6 Diesel is and buys that instead. Without conning and Paper scissors rock cliché I just think the system world work where the American brands would bounce off and compliment each other maximising sales potential.
I 'm sure a lot of you will question Saab as a main global brand when it barely produces 140,000 units pa. However; in the grand scale of things, up until the point when GM introduced Chevy to Europe Saab was the only global player they had. Not even OPEL is offered on a full global scale and even Chevy is still finding its feet. Saab on the other hand has more than 30 years head start in public opinion. Some of it bad just like any brand but generally the brand is appreciated. Come end of 2009 when Saab will have 2 new products with a distinct Saab feel and the quality that will make some people question whether that Audi A6 purchase is really going to be better than a more exclusive Saab 9-5 and I think people will start to realise the potential of Saab.

But thats enough of me plugging Saab again. The bottom line is that I don’t think it’s the brands and money spent on R&D that GM have the complete problem with. Personally I think it is over management and retirees that are sucking the money out of GM that needs to be address too.

I lived half of my life in America and half in Europe and can understand both sides to this issue.I agree with a lot with what you say,but also disagree with some. Here are some thing I would like to point out:

1. Saturn is not profitable,and I doubt it will be in the near future. It's taken Oldsmobile's place of being a redundant brand. If any brand should be axed then this should be the first. I don't understand the purpose of this brand. In the beginning it' purpose was to sell cheap plastic fuel efficient cars,but now that it's gone upscale it overlapses Chevy & Pontiac

2.Opel going a bit upscale in Europe is a the same stupid mistake GM did with Saturn. Opel is considered cheap in most parts of Europe and the brand carries many stigmas from the past. Now it even overlaps Chevy ever since it entered the market.

3.Buick is big in China,and that brand could make a small comeback in the States (Enclave shows us Buicks can compete). Perhaps 2 new zetas and 1 alpha car would be needed to achieve this. Buick should be put together with Cadillac to give their dealers more volume.

4.Pontiac has HUGE potential has a global performer. It may have stigmas in North America,but it doesn't outside of it. I see every now and then imported Pontiacs,and believe me I see more old Trans Ams then new or old Saabs. The potential is huge. Affordable performance is always wanted. Fiat has Alfa Romeo & is bringing back Abarth, VW has Seat....GM should bring Pontiac. Now some of you would say that Holden can easily take it's place. No it can't. In the most recent history Holdens were nothing but rebadges Opels and Daewoos. It has no brand equity outside Australia and New Zealend,while Pontiac is relativlly known through movies and TV shows (KITT, Jazz, Smokey & The Bandit...etc)

5.Saab is brand that has no future in it's current form. The design is too polarizing and mainstream buyers generally don't like them. The engineering expertise you mention is done by GM Europe (platforms,engines...etc)and third parties (XWD by Haldex...etc) parties. GM wouldn't loose much because a modern Saab is basically a Opel or Chevy with different sheet metal,unfortunately, and thats why they are losing their way. Saab was once big with rallying and GM could try to turn it into a Subaru fighter,but that would require a lot of marketing and competing in WRC. I don't now if GM is willing to do that. It could also try a different route and kill Saturn and put Saab in its place has an import fighter,but that would anger a lot of core fans,and the end result is risky.

6.Cadillac is on a good route,and requires more marketing on a global level. The CTS-V record lap at the Nurburgring for production sedans is something that GM marketing should take advantage off. There is a future for Cadillac.

7.GMC is NEEDED to give trucks to BPG dealers. You can't just kill it and you can't turn it into a heavy truck division because GM sold off it's right to do so if my memory serves me correct. GMC doesn't have any global value (exept Canada were it is more popular then Chevy trucks ) because Chevy is much more widespreaded and their is no need for a redundant brand in new markets.

8.Contrary to what many of you believe but Hummer is very popular on a global scale among the rich who are looking for a cool offroader. They don't care about oil prices,because their rich. If this brand suffers from a bad image from green activist then GM should try to fix that because Hummer made a lot of money and could continue to do so. It's a niche brand.

Bottom line is that GM has made a mess with it's brands and needs to refocus. I believe most of these brands can be saved and be profitable,but if a few need to go then I think Saab should be sold and maybe Saturn because they overlap with Chevy and Pontiac,have never been profitable and have a much smaller dealer network.