GM Starting To Listen?

[bhoppes]

GM knows they need SOME (not just one) hot smaller cars on the market, especially when gas hit 3.50 today, when this morning it was 3.25 or something. They might have the SUV and pickup market, but they really need these smaller cars, and some hybrid ones at that.

[bhoppes]

I have taken a look at the "future" Saturn lineup on GMI and all I can say is .... amazing! The Aura especially. Even when the Aura come out I was kinda impressed, but not too. The Aura on GMI is definetely better. I was always pissed at Saturn for taking the place of Olds (which it never will). BUT, if Olds was alive today I would want the lineup to look like that.

[FoMoCo Fan]

Originally Posted by nsap

The reason GM doesn't have the funds to design such is because they neglected their product lineup for the last 30 years.

With the exception of the Switch, all of our designs are realistic. Actually, the Aura is VERY VERY close the real Epsilon II Aura. GM already has plans to make the E2 Aura, next Astra, next Corsa, and Kappa II Sky. There is most of our lineup there!

You're correct. I was thinking about adding a statement saying this particular RIA project is mostly realistic, but I was thinking more about a lot of other un-realistic stuff out here masquerading as "inside info" or "product plans", etc. I think the Corsa might be a little over the top for the segment, but no more so that any show car car would be.

[asim]

This is great. GM is starting to listen, which is what they really needed to do all along. Hopefully the buying public and the GM fan base will affect GM's decisions on bringing cars and developing cars here in North America. We would all like to see the minicars here in the US, along with new Buicks.

Behold the power of GMI!

[Ming]

Let's hope so. If GM decides to ultimately ignore us (they're still "studying" these decisions based on the feedback), then I'm not going to shout at a wall forever while they lose customers and market share. My enthusiasm has limits, even if I'll always be a GM fan at heart.

[Mr. Burns]

I disagree. GM serving it's fans will not save the company. Fans will buy whatever the general spits out, that is of any interest. The general public are something different entirely. Most of them dont care about what they drive, they want a simple form of transportation that gets them from point A to point B reliably, as cheap as possible (within respective classes) and comfortably. those are the #1 priorities, the aspects that engineering takes care of, not styling. As they say, styling is just gift wrapping an engineers creation.

Do the fans have good ideas? yes. Do we know anything about how GM is run, what internal challenges they face and what their own plans are? no.

referring to RIA, you guys have styled your dream lineup of the saturn of the future. What will the competition be like then? You guys dont know. GM might have an idea, but they dont really know either, so i doubt they will take the risk of listening to you guys.

I just hope they get the beat to canada as fast as possible, smart cars are flying off the shelves here, and the Beat would probably walk all over it. That's not me saying that as a fan, but rather from common sense.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by steve333

I see very little sign of GM listening to anyone. If they did they would be doing more to keep the Cobalt competitive and be working harder on their small cars in general.
And why do we have to tell them the obvious? Can't GM hire a CEO with enough brainpower to see that Buick China's cars would be successful here? That a Caddy CTS Coupe should have been coming out for sale in 2008? That telescoping steering wheels should be standard across the board? That a 4 cylinder lower priced Aura would increase sales? That 6 speed autos should be standard by now? That more of their engines (preferrably all of them) should be direct injection?
Sadly I still see a slumbering Giant walking in its sleep.

I would agree that GM has done little to truly make its cars desirable on the market.

Yes, many of the new vehicles are VERY nice and future ones like the G8 and Camaro should do well and most new models address the powertrain issues.

But the total neglect and just plain brain dead moves on existing product is amazing.

To add to your list how about a power seat option on 40/20/40 bench seat GMT900's?

The six passenger bench seat Crew/Extended cab is the one most likely to need to seat six and have two drivers that could use not only power seats but memory power seats like the buckets on topline models - all they need to do is replace the console with the center seat and GM would have it, and they could even charge $300 and boost sales.

No Fog Lights with base engines - since when do you need 500 HP to use Fog Lights? The same goes for Heated mirrors on many cars. These are saftey items (and very popular in California) but GM pulls stuff like this and wonders why they can't give cars away out here.

You can add quite a few other features that are left out of option lists of base engine cars especially 4-cylinder ones, GM has not figured out that true enthusiasts know what the good powertrains are and will buy them regardless if the options are not "exclusive" to that powertrain. The only real differences in options required for enthusiasts are with suspensions and brake upgrades not things like if all trim levels have Fog Lights.

And why is GM afraid to put a power seat in a Cobalt? Does anyone really think that thousands of buyer will buy a Cobalt over an Impala just because it has a power seat?

Where are the DVD Nav systems in Midsize and above cars?

These things drive me crazy because they could all be fixed tommorow by getting someone who knows how to sell cars to buyers on the coasts. GM's real problem is with option content more than anything and it is completey fixable.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

I would agree that GM has done little to truly make its cars desirable on the market.

Yes, many of the new vehicles are VERY nice and future ones like the G8 and Camaro should do well and most new models address the powertrain issues.

But the total neglect and just plain brain dead moves on existing product is amazing.

To add to your list how about a power seat option on 40/20/40 bench seat GMT900's?

The six passenger bench seat Crew/Extended cab is the one most likely to need to seat six and have two drivers that could use not only power seats but memory power seats like the buckets on topline models - all they need to do is replace the console with the center seat and GM would have it, and they could even charge $300 and boost sales.

No Fog Lights with base engines - since when do you need 500 HP to use Fog Lights? The same goes for Heated mirrors on many cars. These are saftey items (and very popular in California) but GM pulls stuff like this and wonders why they can't give cars away out here.

You can add quite a few other features that are left out of option lists of base engine cars especially 4-cylinder ones, GM has not figured out that true enthusiasts know what the good powertrains are and will buy them regardless if the options are not "exclusive" to that powertrain. The only real differences in options required for enthusiasts are with suspensions and brake upgrades not things like if all trim levels have Fog Lights.

And why is GM afraid to put a power seat in a Cobalt? Does anyone really think that thousands of buyer will buy a Cobalt over an Impala just because it has a power seat?

Where are the DVD Nav systems in Midsize and above cars?

These things drive me crazy because they could all be fixed tommorow by getting someone who knows how to sell cars to buyers on the coasts. GM's real problem is with option content more than anything and it is completey fixable.

Yea I see these things too, but even when I question it some people (Which will go nameless) try to find excuses like "People don't need it, they don't want it, bla bla bla". Just do it, the competition can do it so can you.

[stevecmh]

Congrats to whoever penned those cars.. GM should pick them up.. the are amazing

[steined]

There are GM product managers who read enthusiast boards. But they aren't always the one's making the final decision. There is a fine line between listening to the customer and giving the customer what they think they want. Just look at the history of the Aztek development. GM listened, and the Aztek was the result.

That being said, GM could do far worse than to end up with that Saturn RIA lineup. I for one am a fan.

[mcool]

GM surely doesn't have to listen to the voices on this forum. They would be wise to take anything here with a grain of salt. That said, this site is an awesome example of a vivid discourse surrounding their core business. It's a focus group that runs itself and evolves more quickly than any corporate commitee can ever hope to. Kudos to all those keeping this site running and constantly improving.

If nothing else, this site raises the expectations we have of GM. GM has noticed, and I imagine will continue to do so. Let's keep GM on its toes, and we'll get rewarded with constantly improving product!

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by steined

There are GM product managers who read enthusiast boards. But they aren't always the one's making the final decision. There is a fine line between listening to the customer and giving the customer what they think they want. Just look at the history of the Aztek development. GM listened, and the Aztek was the result.

That being said, GM could do far worse than to end up with that Saturn RIA lineup. I for one am a fan.

I witnessed the development of the Aztek firsthand, and listening had absolutely nothing to do with it. Clinic results were negative, and ignored. The designers knew it was ugly, but knew better than to speak up. The board of directors wanted a crossover fast and cheap, and that's what they got.

GM doesn't want to listen because really listening would mean more work, and they feel stressed out already.

Talk doesn't mean anything. We'll know they're really listening when the products reflect it.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

I would agree that GM has done little to truly make its cars desirable on the market.

Yes, many of the new vehicles are VERY nice and future ones like the G8 and Camaro should do well and most new models address the powertrain issues.

But the total neglect and just plain brain dead moves on existing product is amazing.

To add to your list how about a power seat option on 40/20/40 bench seat GMT900's?

The six passenger bench seat Crew/Extended cab is the one most likely to need to seat six and have two drivers that could use not only power seats but memory power seats like the buckets on topline models - all they need to do is replace the console with the center seat and GM would have it, and they could even charge $300 and boost sales.

No Fog Lights with base engines - since when do you need 500 HP to use Fog Lights? The same goes for Heated mirrors on many cars. These are saftey items (and very popular in California) but GM pulls stuff like this and wonders why they can't give cars away out here.

You can add quite a few other features that are left out of option lists of base engine cars especially 4-cylinder ones, GM has not figured out that true enthusiasts know what the good powertrains are and will buy them regardless if the options are not "exclusive" to that powertrain. The only real differences in options required for enthusiasts are with suspensions and brake upgrades not things like if all trim levels have Fog Lights.

And why is GM afraid to put a power seat in a Cobalt? Does anyone really think that thousands of buyer will buy a Cobalt over an Impala just because it has a power seat?

Where are the DVD Nav systems in Midsize and above cars?

These things drive me crazy because they could all be fixed tommorow by getting someone who knows how to sell cars to buyers on the coasts. GM's real problem is with option content more than anything and it is completey fixable.

Its so frustrating. I have a Cobalt and its close to being a very good car. But the car most obviously needs better seats (power seats would be a great move), a telescoping steering wheel, an enhanced dash (at least use better materials and ditch the cheap silver), all disc brakes, and a stiffer suspension (so they could reduce the firmness of the shocks and take bumps better).
Its your premium small car, Chevy, make it seem like it is.

[redimpss5]

Looks pretty good! Now, can it handle the curves and power out of them?

[mike's 01ws6]

They could at least tease everyone by running the minicars around detroit.