A Geo-Centric GM

[atomicshark]

Instead of creating a new division, GM should rethink the direction it is taking Saturn and turn Saturn into GM's "green" division.

This would free up development money that can go straight to Chevy for even better midsize cars and crossovers instead of having to divvy some of it up to give every division it's own version of the same vehicle.

[AndrewGS]

"Get to know Geo all over again."

I liked Geo.

[jwrebholz]

The last thing GM needs is another divsion, even a subdivision.

What GM NEEDS is a compact and subcompact that can compete with the Civic, Corolla, Fit and Yaris. The Cobalt and Aveo aren't there. They aren't even CLOSE. The Cobalt needs to lose about 400 pounds and go with a sub-2.0L ECOTEC that can get it up to 30 MPG city. The Aveo needs a 40+ MPG powertrain.

And they can't be "just as good" as the competition. They need to be better--leaps and bounds better--before anyone will take them seriously.

[ghughes]

"And they can't be "just as good" as the competition. They need to be better--leaps and bounds better--before anyone will take them seriously.
" - we will never produce "leaps and bounds" better small cars, when your competitor focuses on small cars(Japan) and has more money than god to spend on them.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by K-1

You, sir, have no concept of economics and have an even smaller grasp on the auto industry itself. The Altima hasn't even been tested by the EPA yet for '08, so if you're comparing '07 to '08 numbers, then, seriously, just leave.

I just gave you a standing ovation. Thank you for that.

[geozinger]

Al is mostly right. GM needs another division? No. GM does need the same kind of cars from the defunct Geo division.

IMO what GM needs to do is two things. First, get whatever hybrids, mild, two-mode, to market as soon as they can. And advertise the $h*t out of it, too! I don't know if they could push-up the release, (a'la GMT 900) but that would be a big head start.

Second, they need two small cars, one for Chevy and another for Saturn. The Chevy should be conventional, but nice. No stripper version available except for a super cheap 'L' version, the price leader. Maybe they could use one of the current out of North American market Daewoos no one has seen here (provided they can meet US safety standards).

The Saturn should be the 'gee-whiz' super-techno version, with hybrid drivetrain standard, and distinctively different styling from the Chevy version. Absolutely no stripper version at all. Again, maybe they could use an out of North American market car, like one of the Opels or an upcoming Daewoo (new Lacetti?). Same kind of difference between the Corolla and the Prius.

G-B-P would have to get along without such a small car, but that's OK since it's not their mission anymore. If the small cars take off, maybe then GM could add other lines, but only to Saturn and Chevy. Again G-B-P is not in the super-mileage small car business.

Pricing would have to be competitive, naturally. But if it were inexpensive enough and good enough mileage, it would be a hit for GM.

[Caleb02]

Ford Should Have A Pinto Division

[stadtsoldat]

Originally Posted by jwrebholz

The last thing GM needs is another divsion, even a subdivision.

What GM NEEDS is a compact and subcompact that can compete with the Civic, Corolla, Fit and Yaris. The Cobalt and Aveo aren't there. They aren't even CLOSE. The Cobalt needs to lose about 400 pounds and go with a sub-2.0L ECOTEC that can get it up to 30 MPG city. The Aveo needs a 40+ MPG powertrain.

And they can't be "just as good" as the competition. They need to be better--leaps and bounds better--before anyone will take them seriously.

I agree with this sentiment. But I've toyed with the idea of making Chevy a dedicated fuel-economy division, just like their current advertising leads you to believe. They could kill Chevy trucks and just have GMC take over that role. Corvette could become it's own, kind of like how it already is, but start selling it at Caddy dealers. But I guess the dealer network would have a cow, and it wouldn't mesh with the Camaro either. And maybe Chevy is destined to remain the "vanilla" everydayman car from GM, kind of like Toyota is.

Maybe the answer is to just, like the post above said, get the Cobalt and Aveo on some sort of competitive track, and I would also add that they have to get the Volt to market. People don't care about a green brand or they wouldn't buy Prius' in light of the Tundra, etc. They just want a green car that makes them stand out. So to change perception, get the Volt going.

[Road Kill]

I feel that this is a perfect opportunity to get use of the triplets. I would give the Groove to Chev as the high volume everything product, The Beat to Pontiac as the sporty performance model and the Traxx to Saturn as the more upscale, lower volume mini SUV. I think this would do more to improve GM's overall image with the public than anything else and we certainly don't need GEO. It would also get more divisions involved in the process.These small gas sippers would show GM is serious about gas mpg. It should not be a real issue about the costs if imported from Korea or another low cost country and they could also find a home in Europe and Asia. GM has the resources and products available they just have to start using them and doing it in a timely manner.

[N8s07ss]

I think the Cobalt's fuel economy is vastly underrated. I own a Cobalt SS supercharged, and consistently get 25-27 MPG city, and 32-34 MPG highway. I guess it's possible that it's because my engine is .2L smaller than the base models, but I would think that the base engine 2.2L would do better than my LSJ. I visit Cobaltss.net occasionally, and I remember a thread a while back about fuel economy, and many of the other members were seeing similar numbers to me, and I remember a few of the 2.2 owners getting something in the 40 MPG-range highway. Are those numbers any more competitive, or do I just not know enough about the Civic & Corolla numbers?

[Caleb02]

Gm has way too many division, Chevy should be the entry level division, then comes saturn, then Caddy, get rid of buick gmc, pontiac, saab, opal, vuxhaul, and all the rest and use only Chevy, Saturn and Caddy as world wide products.

[geozinger]

Originally Posted by N8s07ss

I think the Cobalt's fuel economy is vastly underrated. I own a Cobalt SS supercharged, and consistently get 25-27 MPG city, and 32-34 MPG highway. I guess it's possible that it's because my engine is .2L smaller than the base models, but I would think that the base engine 2.2L would do better than my LSJ. I visit Cobaltss.net occasionally, and I remember a thread a while back about fuel economy, and many of the other members were seeing similar numbers to me, and I remember a few of the 2.2 owners getting something in the 40 MPG-range highway. Are those numbers any more competitive, or do I just not know enough about the Civic & Corolla numbers?

I have a 10 year old Cavalier (2.2 OHV) that gets the same city mileage you get on your SS/SC. In reality, we've made progress, considering a SS/SC would smoke my old Cavy ten times over .

Even my Malibu Maxx gets 20-22 MPG in the city and 31-33 MPG in freeway driving which isn't bad for a relatively large car. And it gets better as the car breaks-in further.

However, there seems to be a psychological boundary that if a car company doesn't offer a car that gets mileage in the neighborhood of 40 MPG there's something wrong. I would be a lot more impressed if these companies that DO offer 40+ MPG cars would scrap their 12 MPG truck lines. THAT would show commitment to the environment. I'm not going to hold my breath...

The sum total of a car is not mileage alone. For me there are certain traits that I consider, and decent mileage is one of them.

[91 s-10baja]

Originally Posted by AndrewGS

"Get to know Geo all over again."

I liked Geo.

You stole my line!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NokyV1HrXMk

[Searchlight]

Originally Posted by VCDJ

As of right now GM, does not have good 4 cylinder engine. Even Aura hybrid get worst mpg then a four cylinder altima. Cobalt 32 mpg. that is just wrong. GM is still focusing to much on Cancer(GMT-900). Yes it is a cancer, it is killing gm slowly.

This is simply not true. While the numbers are indeed close, the Aura Hybrid is not worse than the std 4 cylinder Altima. I'll admit that the numbers are far too close for a hybrid, but let's at least stay factual.

Secondly, far too many people blame GM for spending money on the 900 program. All platforms require refresh and advancement and the sheer number of trucks GM sells is obvious proof that money needs to go here as well.

[Chaz_23]

GM and the domestics and even other Japanese lost the hybrid battle to Toyoduh. Hybrids will forever be associated with Toyoduh no matter what everyone else does. Unless GM can come up with a hybrid Aveo or Corsa that yields 50+ mpg they shouldn't even bother.
At this point they should focus on materials to make their cars lighter, true zero-emission technologies, find ways to make conventional engines more efficient. Use more superchargers instead of constantly increasing engine size.
Make the triplets in Canexico, Chinorea, or wherever, and bring them over.
DIESELS!!!
I have no problem with the Deltas. Of course they're no Saturn SL. But that what happens when you make cars larger and add 300-500cc to an engine. The Deltas should be more competitive inside and more better looking outside so they are more attractive to buyers. Improve quality too.
At this point GM has to come out with something revolutionary, not just the same old tired "wait, we've got one of them hybrids, too, look, we're a green company just as the other guys..."