Future for Pontiac

[TahoeMikeZ71]

Pontiac can't go all RWD and must have a FWD/AWD (AWD is capable on E2) midsize sedan (G6) I think. As, for some people comparing Pontiac to BMW, BMW shoppers are less likely to cross shop a Pontiac when they're looking for a BMW. BMW is Cadillac's job to compete with.

[HoeyHimself]

Originally Posted by TAHOE LT

Pontiac can't go all RWD and must have a FWD/AWD (AWD is capable on E2) midsize sedan (G6) I think. As, for some people comparing Pontiac to BMW, BMW shoppers are less likely to cross shop a Pontiac when they're looking for a BMW. BMW is Cadillac's job to compete with.

I dont think that Pontiac has any place trying to compete on BMW's turf..but I do think that Pontiac can direct their attention towards what BMW is. Why not? If Pontiac harnessed the performance and general idea that is BMW, they could offer an alternative to the people who like BMWs for their performance but dont want to pay the added costs for the luxury riff raffs and badge.

[TahoeMikeZ71]

I agree. They just need more products with performance and style like the Solstice and they'll get the attention they need and deserve.

[mcool]

"Pontiac can't go all RWD and must have a FWD/AWD (AWD is capable on E2) midsize sedan (G6) I think. As, for some people comparing Pontiac to BMW, BMW shoppers are less likely to cross shop a Pontiac when they're looking for a BMW. BMW is Cadillac's job to compete with."

Pontiac could certainly go all RWD if if offered AWD capability. It's not just BMW it should shoot for, but price conscious buyers who ASPIRE to Infiniti, BMW, Merc, even Caddie.

It should REALLY be about performance, period. FWD and performance don't mesh together, and Pontiac's only pretending with the G6 GXP and the Grand Prix GXP.

[cfch3399]

Pontiac as US GMDAT? No thanks. Some Holden models perhaps, but with different sheetmetal.
Pontiac should be GM's turbo/supercharged division. Drop Saturn Redlines and give the G6 a turbo, drop any supercharged Chevy SSs and give them to Pontiac, e.g. supercharged Torrent, turbo G5. Drop the base Grand Prix and leave only the GT and GXP. Pontiac can easily become the performance division again. Let Buick fill fleet orders. Do bring back a Bonneville as a FWD sports sedan if the Grand Prix has to move to RWD or the other way around. Make a Firebird again both as NA and Trans Am Ram Air SC, but not a Firebird V6 please, let Chevy have a V6 Zeta.

[hq308]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Bob Lutz needs to pick a half dozen blue blooded homegrown Americans under the age of 30, give them a skunkworks building, and tell them to "create the cars you want, and make America proud". GM has the talent to do better than kidney grills on a Holden.

Yeah well they're sure not using it!
Oh and by the way some of the talent you speak off came from Holden. Some of Holdens best designers are now working in NA

[hq308]

It's no wonder GM is as lost as it is at the moment. Eveybody has a different idea on how things should be done, if GM are watching this thread what the heck are they going to get from it. Some want Pontiac to become basically a ricer dealer, some want it exclusively RWD, some want SUV's, some don't want any of these. Personally I think Pontiac needs to get back some of it's heritage before it becomes even more irrelavent than it all ready is in the GM corporate world and goes the way of Oldsmobile.

[Aych Es Vee]

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hmmm, lol

[DanCBJMS1988]

^^Get rid of that kidney grille, and I can see it work!

Originally Posted by paul8488

We're all sick of "here's what I think each GM brand should do" threads... so here's another one. As Saturn gains traction I see less and less use for Pontiac as it is. In an emotional Pontiac-fan sense I'd hate to see it change its mission statement, but what can Pontiac do that Saturn can't? With an Astra and Corsa to compliment the Aura sedan, a Vectra wagon, the Outlook and Vue SUVs, and the Sky roadster, in regular and RedLine versions, where do you see Pontiac offering an edge? I think the RedLine Saturn series is exactly where Pontiac could have sat, but it's now redundant.

GM's ever-increasing pile of global platforms and vehicles gives their North American divisions even more to pick and chose from. I really see three 'types' of vehicles in North America: American, European, and Asian. As Chevrolet and Saturn find their grooves (Chevrolet is and should stay American, and Saturn is starting to offer US buyers Euro-tinted vechicles), I am starting to see a place for Pontiac. Why not let it evolve to be an even more pointed Asian-inspired brand?

Pontiac fans would call that sacrilege, and they're right, I guess. Still, with Chevrolet being American based and Saturn being Euro based, does it not make sense for a third GM brand to pull on the best Asian products GM has? There's simply no room for a new nameplate at GM, but I almost see a 'Geo' or 'Asuna' vision for Pontiac.

There's a good crop of GMDAT cars ready and waiting to be used. The few remaining ones that haven't been redone recently (Lacetti sedan, hatch and wagon, Aveo wagon, Matiz mini-wagon, and Rezzo mini-minivan) would certainly need a refreshing, but the Captiva, Aveo sedan, and Epica are fresh out of the redesign box and ready to hit American soil.

I would like to see Pontiac be the ONLY outlet for GMDAT cars in North America. Adding a model here and there forces GM to spread development dollars too thin, and we end up with a G5 identical to a Cobalt, or Wave identical to an Aveo. Using ALL Pontiac design dollars on exisiting vehicles such as the GMDAT's would allow for much greater visual differentiation. Swapping a Chevy badge for a Pontiac arrowhead wouldn't be enough... but the new GMDAT cars have some very clean, modern lines, and distinct front and rear ends and interior treatments could go a long way to making these vehicles true Pontiacs. Eliminating overlap (since Chevy-badged GMDATs will ideally stay outside of North America) will make this new crop of Pontiacs appear even fresher and unique.

Not only would this give Pontiac dealers something different to sell than the local Chevrolet or Saturn dealers, but it would allow them to have a full lineup without the worry of too much direct overlap. I could easily see all the current GMDATs in a North American Pontiac lineup:

Firefly- Bring back the Firefly name for a sub-subcompact based on the uber-small Matiz. You say there's no market for it? Create one. Americans have seen the advantage of small cars like the Aveo, Yaris, and Fit, so I believe many could be enticed to go even smaller and cheaper with a cute little Firefly. Make it the cheapest car in the US.

Wave- Already exists in Canada. The 5-door Aveo/Wave needs a revamp, and the engines need to drink a little less, but the design suits Pontiac nicely.

Pursuit- Can the current G5, and let Chev and Saturn have delta-based cars. Let Pontiac have the upcoming Lacetti/WRTCC Ultra hatch, and bring out a sedan version too. The sharp looks would attract people bored by the Cobalt and who want something a little more extrovert than the classy but tame Astra.

Grand Am- Adios epsilon-based G6. The Epica is sitting patiently on the sidelines, just begging to come to North America. Pontiac should keep its sporty flair, so an engine upgrade would maybe be necessary, but some gentle cosmetic surgery could help slot the Epica into a Pontiac suit. No 2-door version exists right now, but would be a welcome addition.

Vibe- Wouldn't be quite the same vehicle, but a reskinned Rezzo (a goofy looking Daewoo-holdover begging for a new design) could work very well as a GM (not Toyota) sourced Vibe replacement. Make an AWD version too, as before, and call it Safari.

Torrent- As with the Epica, the Captiva would love to make a North American appearance. The theta platform will pay for itself with the Equinox and Vue on it... let the next Torrent be a slightly smaller but more unique CUV. Wouldn't take much to transform the clean lines of the Captiva into a Pontiac.

That's my vision of Pontiac. It would nicely handle the likes of Hyundai and Kia, and even some of the smaller Japenese vehicles. It would position GM well to fend off any upcoming Chinese vehicles, as GMDAT cars can generally be sold at competitive prices. Why not pull a RedLine-like move and offer all Pontiacs in GXP version. Or have a triple lineup... regular gasoline powered Pontiacs with an emphasis on value and economy, GXP versions with supercharged engines for the performance oriented, and diesel-powered Pontiacs for utlimate economy and durability appeal.

The Solstice is a great Pontiac, and could stay, or the production capacity could be used to make a kappa-based Chevy (aka Nomad). The G6 convertible was clearly a huge investment, but I think that could be recouped if Saturn got a hardtop convertible Aura. Not much other cash has been spent on Pontiac lately, so I don't think it would be a huge waste to swith gears for Pontiac. A potential Holden-based Pontiac Grand Prix or Bonneville could maybe still fit the bill, or it could instead become a Buick and/or big Chevrolet. Oh, and I don't like alhpanumeric names all that much, so I'd rather see a comeback of real Pontiac names.

As much as I don't REALLY like the idea of pimping out Pontiac as a Korean-car dumping ground, I like the idea of Pontiac becoming completley irrelevant even less.

I don't know if you realize it, but you're actually suggesting to GMNA what GM LAAM has for Chevrolet's Middle East lineup. Their lineup goes something like this:

Spark
Aveo
Optra
Epica
Lumina (Commodore/Monaro)
Caprice (Statesman)
With Corvette, Uplander, and the SUVs/trucks.

I actually wouldn't mind a lineup like that, with the Solstice. The trouble is that with the Torana rumours circulating, I don't think it would be wise for Pontiac to bring over the Epica - maybe Chevy could replace the Malibu with the Epica. In addition, it would also fit in very well with a Pontiac Catalina (VE Commodore from Omega to SS-V, plus the HSV models) and a Pontiac GTO (2-dr. coupe on Zeta powertrain styled on VE's HSV models). Buick would get WM, but then that leaves the problem with the HSV models based on WM. I think it's no problem - just make some stripped-down WM versions and ship them and the HSV models and you have a Pontiac Bonneville. That would make a decent lineup right there. My problem with the Pursuit is how are you going to fit the Optra into the Pontiac lineup? Would you have to reskin the Optra the the concept's lines to sell it? Other than that, I like that idea, Paul, I really do.

[ChevroletRevived]

Originally Posted by Aych Es Vee

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hmmm, lol

Now, THAT's a Pontiac. Pontiac's should be Holden cars. Buick, Chevy, etc can get their own bodies on the Zeta platform.

[56 Starchief]

Originally Posted by paul8488

We're all sick of "here's what I think each GM brand should do" threads...

As much as I don't REALLY like the idea of pimping out Pontiac as a Korean-car dumping ground, I like the idea of Pontiac becoming completley irrelevant even less.

Pontiac needs to become a RWD Mazda. Period.

[hq308]

Originally Posted by 56 Starchief

Pontiac needs to become a RWD Mazda. Period.

Mazda???????????

[appman]

I heard there was a call for blue blooded Americans under the age of 30 to design Pontaic's future? GM, I can start tommorrow, today, now! Pontaic under my control would be a no-excuses performance division without the lux. FWD would be gone, RWD V8's, turbocharging and supercharging all across the board. I could have Pontiac's name feared in the streets and have Poncho's return to their glory. I was insulted and disgusted to hear Pontiac to become GMDAT's dumping ground, give them to Chevy or bring back the Geo name.

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by appman

I heard there was a call for blue blooded Americans under the age of 30 to design Pontaic's future? GM, I can start tommorrow, today, now! Pontaic under my control would be a no-excuses performance division without the lux. FWD would be gone, RWD V8's, turbocharging and supercharging all across the board. I could have Pontiac's name feared in the streets and have Poncho's return to their glory. I was insulted and disgusted to hear Pontiac to become GMDAT's dumping ground, give them to Chevy or bring back the Geo name.

Same here. G6 would be gone.......replaced by either a Zeta or Torana based Grand Am (am not a big fan of the alphanumeric thing). I'd make sure all Holdens coming into the stable would be more than just rebadges (as with the Monaro/GTO flap) and would also work with GMPP/SLP quite closely (SLP being to Pontiac what SRT is now to Dodge).

Sport utes, crossovers, minivans and the like would be banished....though smaller hatches (akin to the Mazdaspeed 3) would be permitted, provided that they have the looks/performance to seriously compete with the best in the segment.

I would look at adding AWD on selected models and would also look to SLP to create (or expand?) a healthy aftermarket-tuning/upgrade division where things like turbo/superchaging setups, body kits and other performance/visual addons (if not std. somewhere along the model line) could be purchased with the end goal of providing for the ultimate in personalization/customization.

Mopar/SRT and SVT would become afraid, very afraid.......

[ChevroletRevived]

The G6 is selling VERY well. It was a great move for Pontiac.