Future for Pontiac

[HoeyHimself]

Yes, Saturn can do whatever Pontiac is doing currently..but the problem is, Pontiac has been doing the wrong thing for too long. A Pontiac and a Saturn shouldnt appeal to the same consumers at all...it should sound as ridiculous as saying that Saturn can do everything that Cadillac does. Ofcourse, that is not how it is currently..there needs to be big changes at Pontiac. Personally...scrap the ToRent..I mean Torrent and the Vibe..not that they are bad cars, just that I dont think Pontiac needs to be associated as a company that offers those types of vehicles any longer. Pontiac needs a huge make-over..or rather, a sex-change. Fill it with performance! A fullsize RWD sedan and coupe..a midsized RWD sedan and coupe..then the compact G5 but only offered with a performance package..and ofcourse the Solstice. Everything aside from the G5 and Solstice should have a V8 option, all should be performance orienated and none of them should appeal to potential Saturn customers. I dont even care if the large V8 coupe treds a little of the Vettes water..or if the midsized V8 coupe does the same with the Camaro GM can do better with MORE and they can differentiate the cars so that either you want one or the other.

[throwback]

I hope GM is listening to their fans on this board. Pontiac has meant affordable performance since the early 60's. Why is that so hard for GM to understand?

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by Greg Burr

Agreed. Maybe like a boutique, high performance brand.

Exactly...and IMO with the Holdens, whether they are made in Oz or in NA would be a great start!

[mikesright]

Originally Posted by ghughes

No - you cannot change the identity of a brand so radically. It would cost too much - i.e. Wonderbread is now going to sell soup, only.
Pontiac's mission should be sports cars- the prob. is they just arent BMWs and it costs too much to get there.
They stand for something in the consumers mind (but the products havent been there for 30 years.) . I like the GM revit. team idea, but drop the G5. 3 or 4 muscle cars and their g6 idea.

I don't necessarily think Pontiac needs to be all muscle + the G6. It can encompass different performance categories. They can have base models with less firepower, and these options, for example:

G5: Turbocharged hatchback with 4 cyl, FWD/AWD

G6: AWD twin-turbo coupe/convertible/sedan, FWD/AWD

Firebird: RWD-only, Torana-based coupe with small-block V8, up to 450 hp. Smaller than Camaro.

GTO: Large Coupe, up to 500 hp V8, RWD/AWD, and VE-based

Grand Prix: Large Car, up to 500 hp V8, RWD/AWD, and VE-based

Solstice: Turbocharged 4cyl RWD-only small convertible/coupe/wagon

As I said, you could still maintain volume and pricing by having the performance parts and accessories on the side as options, and being able to order a bodykit or interior accessories without necessarily buying the performance parts, too. It can be the customization brand of GM, kinda like Scion, except grown-up and with some serious street-cred performance.

[mcool]

No, no, no. If you want to keep Pontiac from being irrelevant, don't saddle it with even more irrelevant product. They're finally shedding the irrelevant non-performance stuff like the Montana and Aztek. Yeah, the G5 is a questionable stopgap, but the BPG group didn't have a delta car, so for the time being it will have to do. Remaking the Vibe is also questionable, but I imagine investment in that product is minimal for something unique in the domestic GM landscape (even though it is also a Toyota).

Giving the Solstice a pass at best is also wrong. Why substitute passion-less product for a halo car that's WORKING? Demand for the Solstice is high, showroom traffic is up, and the for the first time since the performance realities of the new GTO were fully touted, Pontiac meant something as a brand. Just as the sky will drive folks to the Aura, the Soltice has been doing for the G6.

Moving forward, the switch to rear-drive only makes the most sense. It plays off the 60's and 70's mystique of performance, and is aspirational/emotional enough to undo the neglect of the 80's and 90's.

Future lineup for Pontiac?

Solstice, Solstice coupe
Torana-based compact sedan/coupe range
Torana-based mid-size sedan/coupe/conv. to replace G6
VE-based full size sedan (G8)
VE-based coupe (GTO)

Yeah, that's a lot of new product investment, but the VE/Zeta stuff is underway, and the Torana investment makes sense in multiple markets spread across multiple brands (Cadillac, Pontiac, Holden, global Chevy?).

The resources are there almost as much as the cheap GMDAT cars are.

[Canuck]

GM might as well kill off Pontiac instead of following your suggestion. Alienate the heritage of Pontiac and the buyers it has left.

Pontiac as an American Holden to Saturn as an American Opel is a far more logical direction for Pontiac as a niche brand within PBG.

RWD drive only with a focus on performance, & handling.

GM Canada sells the GMDAT cars as Chevrolets. Why offer these cars as Pontiac's in the U.S.?

[b4z]

Didn't both Olds and Pontiac have years where they sold more than 1,000,000 cars in a year?

I think if GM can bascially take the new Holden VEs and rebadge them as Pontiacs they will be pick up a more upscale customer.
Maybe the BMW intenders that can't quite handle the payments.

But at this point I think both Pontiac and Buick are in WORSE shape than Olds was when the announcement was made that fine day in December 2000.

The handwriting is on the wall for Buick and Pontiac.........and Mercury.
Although I personally feel that Pontiac has more potential for growth than Buick.

[8>4]

Originally Posted by mcool

No, no, no. If you want to keep Pontiac from being irrelevant, don't saddle it with even more irrelevant product. They're finally shedding the irrelevant non-performance stuff like the Montana and Aztek. Yeah, the G5 is a questionable stopgap, but the BPG group didn't have a delta car, so for the time being it will have to do. Remaking the Vibe is also questionable, but I imagine investment in that product is minimal for something unique in the domestic GM landscape (even though it is also a Toyota).

Giving the Solstice a pass at best is also wrong. Why substitute passion-less product for a halo car that's WORKING? Demand for the Solstice is high, showroom traffic is up, and the for the first time since the performance realities of the new GTO were fully touted, Pontiac meant something as a brand. Just as the sky will drive folks to the Aura, the Soltice has been doing for the G6.

Moving forward, the switch to rear-drive only makes the most sense. It plays off the 60's and 70's mystique of performance, and is aspirational/emotional enough to undo the neglect of the 80's and 90's.

Future lineup for Pontiac?

Solstice, Solstice coupe
Torana-based compact sedan/coupe range
Torana-based mid-size sedan/coupe/conv. to replace G6
VE-based full size sedan (G8)
VE-based coupe (GTO)

Yeah, that's a lot of new product investment, but the VE/Zeta stuff is underway, and the Torana investment makes sense in multiple markets spread across multiple brands (Cadillac, Pontiac, Holden, global Chevy?).

The resources are there almost as much as the cheap GMDAT cars are.

This is exactly the lineup that Pontiac should have. When I buy my first new car after graduating, I would love for it to be an entry RWD Pontiac, and then I can eventually replace my Trans Am with a Firebird or GTO.

GM ARE YOU LISTENING? YOU HAVE A CUSTOMER FOR AFFORDABLE PERFORMANCE VEHICLES. NOW BUILD THEM.

[smk4565]

The future pontiac line up is simple. Solstice, G6, Holden based G8, and a GTO coupe that is nicer than the Camaro, more of an Infinit G35 or Acura TL kind of car, but 2 door. End of discussion.

[Sparta]

Horrible lineup, Pontiac is supposed to be a performance/excitement division.

[HoosierRon]

All of you are a buch of conventional wisdom, me-too robots.

Let's start with the proposal with which this thread began. First of all, the world of autos cannot be dumped into three categories: Euro, Asian and American. Two examples and then we can move on. The Chrysler 300 is a reskined E-class. No one in Japan thinks a 6 foot tall pick up that tows 10,000 pounds is the least bit Asian.

Second, an idea to turn Pontiac into an "Asian fighter" is so clouded with confusion that it will leave the consumer with absolutely no idea what Pontiac is. People want to connect with their brands. Slapping a Pontiac badge on a buch of unloved and unwanted Korean, Japanese and Chinese cars will turn it into a dumping ground of appliances.

Imagine this: Let's have Acura make the CTS, Lexus make the STS, BMW make the XLR and Mercedes make the DTS. What an absolute mess Cadillac would be.

Now for the rest of you: a third grader could come up with the idea that Gm take a platform from column A, drop in an engine from Column B, and pick a name from Column C. Then everyone will moan "Another rebadge" and "why aren't they using the top of the line engine". Thank God you weren't the ones approving John DeLorean's plans for Pontiac.

There is one word that will save Pontiac: rebel. A rebel does not let others define the category, and then try to compete in it. A rebel does not take a 2.0 Ecotec and drop it into a foreign body. A rebel could not care less what Chevrolet or Dodge are doing. A rebel will not even acknowledge companies that make cars as pathetic as Camrys and Sentras.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't come up with some formula for a rebel division. It's like National Public Radio explaing to its listeners what "cool" is. You just embarrass yourself. You end up with Azteks.

Bob Lutz needs to pick a half dozen blue blooded homegrown Americans under the age of 30, give them a skunkworks building, and tell them to "create the cars you want, and make America proud". GM has the talent to do better than kidney grills on a Holden.

[Kappa]

Originally Posted by mikesright

I don't necessarily think Pontiac needs to be all muscle + the G6. It can encompass different performance categories. They can have base models with less firepower, and these options, for example:

G5: Turbocharged hatchback with 4 cyl, FWD/AWD

G6: AWD twin-turbo coupe/convertible/sedan, FWD/AWD

Firebird: RWD-only, Torana-based coupe with small-block V8, up to 450 hp. Smaller than Camaro.

GTO: Large Coupe, up to 500 hp V8, RWD/AWD, and VE-based

Grand Prix: Large Car, up to 500 hp V8, RWD/AWD, and VE-based

Solstice: Turbocharged 4cyl RWD-only small convertible/coupe/wagon

As I said, you could still maintain volume and pricing by having the performance parts and accessories on the side as options, and being able to order a bodykit or interior accessories without necessarily buying the performance parts, too. It can be the customization brand of GM, kinda like Scion, except grown-up and with some serious street-cred performance.

I do agree with your idea on the line-up, but make the turbo an option. Although for platforms for some of the cars could be from Holden or see if GM can get the Impreza platform for the compact. I'd love to see Pontiac succeed as a performance division. As long as GM plays its cards right, we could see some suprises in the future for this company.

[HoosierRon]

And why would I buy a Pontiac Impreza instead of a Subaru Impreza?

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Bob Lutz needs to pick a half dozen blue blooded homegrown Americans under the age of 30, give them a skunkworks building, and tell them to "create the cars you want, and make America proud". GM has the talent to do better than kidney grills on a Holden.

AMEN!!!

[Shotgun]

While I am a GM fan and have owned Chevrolets, a Buick, and Pontiacs, I think the key for GM may be to let each brand have its own identity and have no "re-badges" across the line. That way, each division will have its own way of competing, but not against each other, or alienating the other brands.