Doom And Gloom: A Big Al Rant

[1487]

Originally Posted by Ambalanche

Al, I understand what you're saying. The media is the same wheather you're talking about the automobile business or politics. They have thier bias' and their agenda. What you have to understand, and I may get flamed for this, is that as a whole, the media is run by a bunch of self loathing anti-American people that do not believe America should be a super-power, much less have the number 1 automotive company in the world! The media want's to see GM fail just as I truely believe some of them want to see America fail. Or if not fail, not be the world's leader anymore.
Just last night, even after GM had released a statement saying no other brands were up for review, Fox news still had it in thier news updates that GM was considering selling or shutting more of their brands. It actually was kinda funny because the bubble headed bleach blond talking-head spouted out all these GM brands but excluded Chevrolet even though she was not talking about the brands "under review" but rather every brand GM has.
The media don't do their homework anymore, but the average consumer doesn't demand it anymore either. Who's the blame here?

the media is hardly anti american, its just that they want to give people more of what they want to here. The media thinks that the average American drives a Japanese car and resents the Big 3 for poor quality and reliance on SUVS so every story they tell is designed to reinforce that. You cant say the media is anti American when there are stories on every day about parades, memorials for fallen soldiers, segments about "heroes" going off to Iraq, etc. The media is plenty pro-America when they feel is suits their agenda. You have to remember that the news is out to tell you something is wrong and reminding people of the impending collapse of the Big 3 is great "bad" news. In the world of the media everything is simple and the marketshare fall of the Big 3 can be summed up quickly by talking of poor quality and a supposed refusal to change. No stories about how America cant compete when it comes to health care costs, the fact that we like cheap things and thus manufacturing has shifted to low wage companies, the fact that Big 3 quality is up but people still wont buy them or the fact that GM/Ford have successful products in other parts of the world. The media likes a clear storyline that has good guys and bad guys. To idiot reporters who know nothing about cars its very easy to paint the Asian car companies as good guys and the big 3 as slow, greedy, selfish, insulated corporations that hate the environment. According to the media everytime an American auto worker is laid off its because of poor quality. It has nothing to do with the fact that many americans wont buy an american vehicle regardless of performance, styling, quality or fuel efficiency.

[Neanderthal]

Well said, Big Al and youse other guys too.

Unfortunately, we're stuck with the TV and newspaper media we have.

Fortunately, talk radio and the internet can keep us informed regarding the sharp decline in the fortunes of TV news and such blatantly biased former greats as the New York Times.

It's also shameful and pitiful that the media mavens cannot and will not report a Big 3-type decline in their own business.

[mjd1001]

I agree with Trishield's above comment. Maybe the media likes to pick on GM more than its competitors, but GM has made many mistakes that have given them the opportunity to do so.

Is Doom and Gloom deserved? In large part, yes it is. I remember on this very board, people talking about GM's stock price and saying things like "GM stock is a steal at $30 per share" or "now that it is at 25, I am buying for sure" or " you would be in idiot to not buy at $20 per share". Yet, it keeps falling, and there are reasons for that.

Bottom line is...it's not fun to hear bad news story after bad news story about a company you support...but a majority of it is justified by the mistakes GM has made that others haven't.

[mbukukanyau]

GM has the Korean Nuke option. Toyota simply cannot compete on cost, also, Toyota vehicles are overpriced, that is why Toyota took a hit.
The Big story is, Toyota will have to lower its pricing to compete in this economy, and that will upset their profitability and all their business projections.
GM is going to be Numero uno.

Has anyone ever priced a Honda Fit? You do it, and you will understand why Honda is smaller than Hyundai today.
Paying S40 prices for a Fit? Not me

[BigAls87Z28]

I dont blame the media as the problem with GM. GM has problems, but its the media's twist on thoes problems, the emphasis on the bad and only talking about GM's faults while talking about the competitions positives.

[tirediron]

Awesome Al.

I think what I took as the overall sentiment is Be Positive, It'll Work Out!

[skylark68]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

GM has the Korean Nuke option.

That just sounds awesome.

Great article Al.

GM is going to be okay and I seriously doubt we will see any brands disappear from GM's lineup except for possibly Hummer (although I wish Saab would disappear). I do see them becoming a tighter, smaller corporation in the next few years which will probably be a good thing in this economic environment. With the Volt and Camaro coming out soon, GM is going to have a lot of positive attention in the next couple of years.

[jwrebholz]

I really wish I had a couple grand to sink into GM stock right now.

[Stéphane Dumas]

...does not possess the same blood thirsty desire to be #1 like Toyota

Good rant Big Al I know then Honda don't possess yet the blood thirsty desire but how long they'll resist to the temptation to hear the call of desire?

[greenrail]

I agree with Big Al.

The sad thing is that there are some elemnts of truth in what they say. He is 100% correct in pointing out the fact that ToyNisotsan make some pretty fuel thirsty vehicles also.

On the flip side, the one major problem I recently encountered is how out of the mainstream many of GM's vehicles have become. My daughter was on the prowl for her first new car last week. I encouraged her to look at the new Malibu and any other vehicles in that class.

She went and looked at Honda's and VW's. She wouldn't even look at anything from GM.

She ended up blowing off Honda for being too expensive for he features the cars had on them. Suprisingly (or maybe not so surprisingly) she went back to VW. The features, build quality, design, and pricing were the final determining factors. I applaud her for at least thoroughly evaluating her options, with the one exception of not taking a look at GM.

Sad comment on the decline in respect that has come about.

[KingElvis]

I agree with your basic thesis, but I think you'd be way better off by linking to actual stories or quoting from them - when you paraphrase the 'conclusions' it comes off as biased and impressionistic.

Seriously, next time cite specific sources, dates and stories and/or link to them. If it makes you this mad, it's worth carefully documenting so that you won't come off as just some irate fanboy.

One thing I've come to realize about news is that it's just that news BREIFS. You can't start out every story about Israeli raids on Palestine as "In 1948, the UN voted to create the state of Isreal. At that point Mecham Begin was conducting guerrilla raids on...").

The news person's idea of truth is the truth THAT DAY - than no one overtly questions. So you get this repetition of the 'conventional wisdom' - now that CW is ALWAYS going to be wrong when you get up close to the granular level of the specifics. But again, when you've got 800 words, there's not room for nuance at all.

So CW is that GM was caught 'unawares' by the small car wave in the 70's - even though the produced a subcompact in 1971 - years BEFORE the '73 crisis. You look at stories from 1969, and see GM was right on top of the notion of foreign car threats even in the late sixties. By '73 GM was making 'euro' sedans meant to compete with BMW or Mercedes.

This notion of GM's feet of clay is just laughable. Even in '67 Delorean and Bill Mitchell contemplated a 'downsize' of B/C bodies by creating stretched A bodies (The Vista Cruiser and '69 Grand Prix were essentially full size wheelbases on the A body) - so there was downsizing being practiced five years before the oil crisis. Mitchell wanted the '71 Riviera on the A platform too, but the brass and dealers nixed the idea.

As you say Al, the other complete falsehood is this totally shopworn cliche that Toyota sells little cars. The truth is you can't swing a dead cat in a Toyota dealership without hitting an SUV with at least 270hp.

[PRO_USA1776]

Big Al For President!

[ScottS]

The media puts a focus on GM because they are the biggest and have for so many years represented so much of America's manufacturing. As economic times went, so went GM.

If the entire fast food industry went to hell, are you going to hear stories about Checkers, or McDonalds?

When the pharmaceutical industry is under fire, are you going to hear about Pfizer first, or Biogen?

Talk is cheap. You can complain about the Volt not getting press, but the fact is a production model does not exist.

Complain about the Prius all you want, it's apparently what consumers want. It's a real hybrid, not the joke GM offers in some cars. Oh, but the Prius is more environmentally harmful in the production process with that big awful battery the GM loyalists will say. And in the next breath, they clamor for the arrival of the Volt. Then there's Aura Green Line? You get a 2mpg jump for adding a hybrid system? Do you really think a customer is "wowed" when they see a hybrid that gets 24mpg in town?

Then everyone's upset when cutomers don't act rationally. Why would you trade in a an SUV you're going to take a bath on just to buy a Prius or a Fit? It usually doesn't make sense, but because people don't act rationally doesn't mean you can get upset at Toyota or Honda because they were smart enough to know people don't always respond rationally. People have bought into hype, fads and trends for years, often without exercising rationality. So who's the bad guy now, the guy who forecasts a trend and has the right car at the right time or the guy who was late and missed the boat and was unprepared to respond quickly to change?

I just bought a G6. I tried out a lot of cars and sat in many many more. The G6 is the roomiest mid-size for 4 tall adults that I found maybe aside from a WRX hatch. No one knows that though. The base model V6 (that I bought) is rated 19/29 with 219hp. That's not even on the Pontiac website. Pontiac's own website only lists the 4 cylinder (not an option for a guy who's last three cars were LS1's) and the GT V6 which is rated at 17/26, which is a definite difference from 19/29 for virtually the same car once loaded with options like mine.

Which reminds me, it was still hard buying a 2008 G6 with the old center stack (pre bow-tie stereo) and a 4 speed auto. Seriously, a 2008 with 4 speed auto. GM can thank 1) that I'm fairly loyal, 2) that I've got the "old" GM Card and could redeem $3400 toward the G6, 3) that I poked around long enough to discover on my own that a base V6 gets 19/29 and 4) they had a 0% for 72 month sale. It took all four of those conditions to get me to pull the trigger.

GM's been making their own bed for years. Blaming the media is nothing more than scapegoating. I want to see GM succeed because I like their heritage, I love it when they get a car right, and because I think as a corporation and employer they are tremendously important to so many people out there trying to make a living. That said, you can't prop up or blame anyone else for their own mistakes which are full of almosts and half-bakes.

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by 1487

the media is hardly anti american, its just that they want to give people more of what they want to here. The media thinks that the average American drives a Japanese car and resents the Big 3 for poor quality and reliance on SUVS so every story they tell is designed to reinforce that. You cant say the media is anti American when there are stories on every day about parades, memorials for fallen soldiers, segments about "heroes" going off to Iraq, etc. The media is plenty pro-America when they feel is suits their agenda. You have to remember that the news is out to tell you something is wrong and reminding people of the impending collapse of the Big 3 is great "bad" news. In the world of the media everything is simple and the marketshare fall of the Big 3 can be summed up quickly by talking of poor quality and a supposed refusal to change. No stories about how America cant compete when it comes to health care costs, the fact that we like cheap things and thus manufacturing has shifted to low wage companies, the fact that Big 3 quality is up but people still wont buy them or the fact that GM/Ford have successful products in other parts of the world. The media likes a clear storyline that has good guys and bad guys. To idiot reporters who know nothing about cars its very easy to paint the Asian car companies as good guys and the big 3 as slow, greedy, selfish, insulated corporations that hate the environment. According to the media everytime an American auto worker is laid off its because of poor quality. It has nothing to do with the fact that many americans wont buy an american vehicle regardless of performance, styling, quality or fuel efficiency.

The media shouldn't be giving/reporting things people want to hear. They should be objective in reporting their stories, good or bad.

Typical.

An autoworker being laid off is not due to "poor quality". The reason given here is a great example that shows that the media is full of ****!

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by ScottS

The media puts a focus on GM because they are the biggest and have for so many years represented so much of America's manufacturing. As economic times went, so went GM.

If the entire fast food industry went to hell, are you going to hear stories about Checkers, or McDonalds?

When the pharmaceutical industry is under fire, are you going to hear about Pfizer first, or Biogen?

Talk is cheap. You can complain about the Volt not getting press, but the fact is a production model does not exist.

Complain about the Prius all you want, it's apparently what consumers want. It's a real hybrid, not the joke GM offers in some cars. Oh, but the Prius is more environmentally harmful in the production process with that big awful battery the GM loyalists will say. And in the next breath, they clamor for the arrival of the Volt. Then there's Aura Green Line? You get a 2mpg jump for adding a hybrid system? Do you really think a customer is "wowed" when they see a hybrid that gets 24mpg in town?

Then everyone's upset when cutomers don't act rationally. Why would you trade in a an SUV you're going to take a bath on just to buy a Prius or a Fit? It usually doesn't make sense, but because people don't act rationally doesn't mean you can get upset at Toyota or Honda because they were smart enough to know people don't always respond rationally. People have bought into hype, fads and trends for years, often without exercising rationality. So who's the bad guy now, the guy who forecasts a trend and has the right car at the right time or the guy who was late and missed the boat and was unprepared to respond quickly to change?

I just bought a G6. I tried out a lot of cars and sat in many many more. The G6 is the roomiest mid-size for 4 tall adults that I found maybe aside from a WRX hatch. No one knows that though. The base model V6 (that I bought) is rated 19/29 with 219hp. That's not even on the Pontiac website. Pontiac's own website only lists the 4 cylinder (not an option for a guy who's last three cars were LS1's) and the GT V6 which is rated at 17/26, which is a definite difference from 19/29 for virtually the same car once loaded with options like mine.

Which reminds me, it was still hard buying a 2008 G6 with the old center stack (pre bow-tie stereo) and a 4 speed auto. Seriously, a 2008 with 4 speed auto. GM can thank 1) that I'm fairly loyal, 2) that I've got the "old" GM Card and could redeem $3400 toward the G6, 3) that I poked around long enough to discover on my own that a base V6 gets 19/29 and 4) they had a 0% for 72 month sale. It took all four of those conditions to get me to pull the trigger.

GM's been making their own bed for years. Blaming the media is nothing more than scapegoating. I want to see GM succeed because I like their heritage, I love it when they get a car right, and because I think as a corporation and employer they are tremendously important to so many people out there trying to make a living. That said, you can't prop up or blame anyone else for their own mistakes which are full of almosts and half-bakes.

Amen.