Car-based Pickups: The Next Big Thing?

**Ming** · 09-23-2004, 08:43 AM

Car-based Pickups: The Next Big Thing?
Editorial by Ming
GMInsidenews.com

The idea of the utility of a bed in the back of a car is nothing new. The Model T had the option of a pickup bed. Cars of the past like the El Camino still are instantly recognizable names that conjure up the image of a car-based pickup. When and where the division between "pickup" and "car" began I'll leave up to the history buffs. But it clearly happened. Go to many sites on the Web and Chevy trucks are listed separately from cars, often with truck-like SUVs and vans oddly being listed as "cars". Regardless of how and when the division happened, following the trends of today suggest to me that we are headed back to a convergence point, where the differences between pickups and cars are blurred, just as they have been recently with truck-based and car-based SUVs.

Some of the trends are not so obvious. Ford and GM took only a small step away from their SUVs to offer vehicles like the Ford Explorer Sport Trac and the Chevrolet Avalanche. Other offerings are so niche that they haven't affected the market as a whole. Subaru has done the car/pickup thing before with the Brat, and is doing it again with the Baja. And a few vehicles like the GMC Envoy XUV are neither pickup, SUV, nor car, but offer some of the amenities of all 3. When a Toyota Echo-based Scion xB appeared on the cover of a sport truck magazine, the definition of "truck" seemed to mean little anymore.

I recently suggested here that the reason Toyota's next Tacoma looks larger, beefier, and sports bigger, badder engines is not only to keep up with the industry move from "mini" trucks to mid-sizers, but that Toyota and Honda both are planning their move towards car-based pickups. With platforms like those used on the Highlander and Pilot ready for conversion, and a "car guy" press willing to praise the merits of any Honda and Toyota vehicles with a "car like ride" while overlooking such "truck guy" concerns as towing and payload capacity, the road has been cleared for them. We already know that Honda has such a vehicle in the works. For some, all it takes is a Honda emblem on a vehicle to instantly validate it, and thus the type of vehicle itself.

Some might scoff at this - what I consider - upcoming segment and point to the slow sales of the Subaru Baja. They shouldn't. Subaru is already a niche player, and is marketing a niche product within its niche brand. Scoffers would be wise to look at the cars they dismissed from Honda and Toyota in the past. They might ask themselves if they were among those who laughed at the idea of a car-based SUV.

As I see it, GM North America needs to prepare itself for such a market move. If Holden's innovative vehicle designs like the UTE/Crewman can be carried over onto the Zeta platform, then Detroit should be working overtime to make sure that they have a version ready for the US market. GM has been beaten to segments before, and there is no reason to let this one go. In addition - with the added strength of RWD, a variant of the UTE would have an advantage over a FWD-based pickup from Honda.

Too many drivers of pickups rarely use their beds for anything more than an occasional trip to Home Depot. That need can be easily served by a car-based vehicle like the Holden UTE, Subaru Baja, or similar vehicle. Vehicles that make much better use of increasingly expensive gasoline. As the price of gasoline remains high, and technological improvements and additions like all-wheel-drive allow companies like Honda to effectively disguise the origin of their "truck" , these drivers become increasingly likely to trade in their old bouncy guzzlers for a vehicle with the same utility - for them.

The Colorado/Canyon are fine vehicles with great fuel economy, but they are trucks in the old-style sense of it, with anything but a "car like ride" (even if they are better than the average pickup), and are likely to continue to be seen as such. GM should not rely on this pair of vehicles to fend off upcoming cars with utility/cargo beds. They should be developing their own for multiple GM brands. Between a UTE-like vehicle offering a (muscle) car like ride, moderate cargo hauling ability, an HHR variant with an open cargo area, and the small GM pickups offered in 4-door form - that have refused to go the way of the hulking, guzzling HEMI-powered "mid-sizer" from Dodge, GM may well be able to keep their bases covered -- and prevent another situation where they wait on the sidelines to see how the competition does, only to join in with too little, too late.

The idea of the car-based pickup might be old, but it is valid one in this age of crossovers. Perhaps I'm simply biased because I sure wouldn't mind owning one with the right features, but I hope that GM takes this potentially up-and-coming segment seriously.

doh · 09-23-2004, 09:32 AM

I would have to argue the fact that car based pick-ups are the next big thing. The SSR although higher in the price market, we also had the Subaru Brat (not well recieved ) but Subaru is tring again. What about Sport Trac, Colorado\Caynon etc.
They are holding thier on but not really gaining momentum. They are vey car like and would lead me to believe if people are tring to down size thier numbers would jump up.

Hudson · 09-23-2004, 09:34 AM

It sounds like a great theory...Honda and Toyota launching car-based pickups. The problem remains that small pickups don't sell well. Have you looked into the sales numbers of the last years of the El Camino/Caballero? After Ford dropped the Ranchero in 1979, GM had the market all to themselves (except for the VW Rabbit and Dodge Rampage/Plymouth Scamp), and still couldn't sell too many. While they are desired by collectors now, they didn't sell well at the time. Granted, that was two decades ago and things have changed...who would have called the Dodge Magnum anything but a station wagon in 1987, but it's a "truck" today.

Aside from the Honda SUT (which looks to be a success) and the Subaru Baja (which is less than a success), I don't see much of a new wave of car-based pickups. If the Baja had been a hit...my vote would be different. And even with the potential of a success in the SUT, I think few will follow Honda's lead.

The other problem with the theory is based on Toyota's reasoning for moving the Tacoma larger. The traditional "small pickup" market has all but dried up. If it's not a "mid-sized" pickup, it probably won't sell...atleast that's how the traditional, body-on-frame truck market is. Unless someone can come up with an interesting new take on the small pickup (like I thought the Baja would be), small pickups are all but dead.

gmsickofan · 09-23-2004, 10:13 AM

If the car-based pickup is kind of like the evolution of the hatchback wagon thing now, it could work from that angle.

Wagon used to be a dirty word.

big swede · 09-23-2004, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming@Sep 23 2004, 12:43 PM
Too many drivers of pickups rarely use their beds for anything more than an occasional trip to Home Depot. That need can be easily served by a car-based vehicle like the Holden UTE, Subaru Baja, or similar vehicle.

This is the exact reason why they will never be popular. Most people have a truck for it's utility but definitely need the interior room. The vast majority of truck owners still have kids at home and people don't like the thought of being stuck if their multi seat vehicle is in the shop. How many new model single cab trucks do you see running around that are not business trucks. Two seat vehicles will always be a niche market so I think GM has way to many areas to concentrate on before they look into another low volume market.

gmsickofan · 09-23-2004, 10:15 AM

The Subaru Baja has 4-doors.

I don't think it would be difficult to do this:

Quote:

an HHR variant with an open cargo area

And keep 4 doors.

jphil · 09-23-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hudson@Sep 23 2004, 01:34 PM
.who would have called the Dodge Magnum anything but a station wagon in 1987, but it's a "truck" today.

Its definatly not a truck - its a car in every sense of the word. (Wagon)

**BigAls87Z28** · 09-23-2004, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buick61@Sep 23 2004, 01:25 PM
I'm tired of this "Holden will save us" talk. Their designs are ancient. The GTO should be considered a lesson learned. Power, handling, and an attractive interior can't overcome bland looks and high prices.

Maybe the next Gen Zeta Holden's will be different. That's speculation at this point. All I know is that their designs so far haven't been all that hot.

Car based pickups? They'll help with CAFE requirements. But should resources be placed elsewhere, like making truck based trucks more fuel efficient and better handling? Absolutely.

Besides, GM can't even get trucks completely right (Colorado/Canyon), and that's their most important segment. So why bother sinking money into another segment when it can be used to fix the shortcomings in segments you already have entries?

Ahem...might I remind you, this only holds up in America.
Everywhere else, its praised for its style, comfort and performance and the style is labled "European" and not "bland".

There is nothing bland about the Ute, thats for sure.

As far as a Car based pick up...no. It might be good for the soccer mom's out there who want something "rugged", but anyone who wants a truck will still go after the Ford/GM/Dodge combo.
But, all in all....Id buy a Ute!! But not for truck purposes, or performance and parts hauling. B)

ByTheLake · 09-23-2004, 11:29 AM

Personally, I love the Holden Ute. I wouldn't judge the potential success of offering a Ute-type vehicle in the US based on the GTO issues. The GTO misses because of its non-GTO styling. The Ute really has El Camino type styling and would make a great Chevy, if priced accordingly.

I would consider a car-type pickup if it had 4 doors and a decent bed size. No mini-car trucks like the Subaru ... too tiny of a bed.

Z28x · 09-23-2004, 11:38 AM

Holden UTE = Yes
Honduh SUT = NO

well I guess technically the Honda is a pickup based on a FWD minivan :roflmao:

SuperDave479 · 09-23-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buick61@Sep 23 2004, 08:25 AM
Besides, GM can't even get trucks completely right (Colorado/Canyon), and that's their most important segment. So why bother sinking money into another segment when it can be used to fix the shortcomings in segments you already have entries?

If you think Colorado and Canyon are missing the mark, I'd like to know what you think is not....

Let's see, completely redesigned to address shortcomings in the S-Series trucks, a bit larger (which is what people are gravitating toward in the U.S.), nice engine lineup, much improved handling (the new ZQ8 package has excellent handling for a truck), etc. etc.

stewacide · 09-23-2004, 01:05 PM

Does nobody remember the Ford Freestyle concept that could be converted into a wagon, pickup, or sedan?

Apparently the mechanism was well designed and production ready. With tonnes of interior space, a tall ride, loads of versatility, AWD, and a Ford badge I don't see how it wouldn't dominate the car-based pickup market... assuming there is one.

MelvinJ · 09-23-2004, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stewacide@Sep 23 2004, 05:05 PM
Does nobody remember the Ford Freestyle concept that could be converted into a wagon, pickup, or sedan?

Apparently the mechanism was well designed and production ready. With tonnes of interior space, a tall ride, loads of versatility, AWD, and a Ford badge I don't see how it wouldn't dominate the car-based pickup market... assuming there is one.

So is that an Avalanche style midgate on it? That would be a versatile package, but I'd hate to give up the third row seating for it.

I really like the versatility of the Avalanche, but it's a 5-seater (OK, some can seat 6, but not happily). If they could make a Yukon XUV with the sliding roof panel(like the Envoy XUV only on the full-size chassis) and still find some way to have the third seat in it, THAT will be the ultimate utility vehicle for me. As it is, I only find maybe once or twice a year that I really wished I had an open cargo area on my Suburban. Most of the time though, I'm glad I can put 4X8 sheets of whatever in the back and close the tailgate. You can't do that with 80% of the pickups sold today.

dreadnaught1181 · 09-23-2004, 01:23 PM

I personally find the Holden UTE and its Ford counterpart badass. While I know they would only appeal to a very limited audience here, I would like to at least see them offered.

ibechip · 09-23-2004, 01:40 PM

Want comthing to take down that Magnum? GIVE US THE UTE!!! Ok so maybe it's not a direct competitor but, in my mind, that's exactly what a modern El Camino should look like. I think the biggest shortcoming of the Baja is that there is no cover for the cargo area. The UTE has that down pat. Stick the I5 in there and give us a LS2 for a small amount of SS models and BAM you got the new El Camino. I'm lovin it.

09-23-2004, 08:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ming GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SE Texas Posts: 13,396	Car-based Pickups: The Next Big Thing? Car-based Pickups: The Next Big Thing? Editorial by Ming GMInsidenews.com The idea of the utility of a bed in the back of a car is nothing new. The Model T had the option of a pickup bed. Cars of the past like the El Camino still are instantly recognizable names that conjure up the image of a car-based pickup. When and where the division between "pickup" and "car" began I'll leave up to the history buffs. But it clearly happened. Go to many sites on the Web and Chevy trucks are listed separately from cars, often with truck-like SUVs and vans oddly being listed as "cars". Regardless of how and when the division happened, following the trends of today suggest to me that we are headed back to a convergence point, where the differences between pickups and cars are blurred, just as they have been recently with truck-based and car-based SUVs. Some of the trends are not so obvious. Ford and GM took only a small step away from their SUVs to offer vehicles like the Ford Explorer Sport Trac and the Chevrolet Avalanche. Other offerings are so niche that they haven't affected the market as a whole. Subaru has done the car/pickup thing before with the Brat, and is doing it again with the Baja. And a few vehicles like the GMC Envoy XUV are neither pickup, SUV, nor car, but offer some of the amenities of all 3. When a Toyota Echo-based Scion xB appeared on the cover of a sport truck magazine, the definition of "truck" seemed to mean little anymore. I recently suggested here that the reason Toyota's next Tacoma looks larger, beefier, and sports bigger, badder engines is not only to keep up with the industry move from "mini" trucks to mid-sizers, but that Toyota and Honda both are planning their move towards car-based pickups. With platforms like those used on the Highlander and Pilot ready for conversion, and a "car guy" press willing to praise the merits of any Honda and Toyota vehicles with a "car like ride" while overlooking such "truck guy" concerns as towing and payload capacity, the road has been cleared for them. We already know that Honda has such a vehicle in the works. For some, all it takes is a Honda emblem on a vehicle to instantly validate it, and thus the type of vehicle itself. Some might scoff at this - what I consider - upcoming segment and point to the slow sales of the Subaru Baja. They shouldn't. Subaru is already a niche player, and is marketing a niche product within its niche brand. Scoffers would be wise to look at the cars they dismissed from Honda and Toyota in the past. They might ask themselves if they were among those who laughed at the idea of a car-based SUV. As I see it, GM North America needs to prepare itself for such a market move. If Holden's innovative vehicle designs like the UTE/Crewman can be carried over onto the Zeta platform, then Detroit should be working overtime to make sure that they have a version ready for the US market. GM has been beaten to segments before, and there is no reason to let this one go. In addition - with the added strength of RWD, a variant of the UTE would have an advantage over a FWD-based pickup from Honda. Too many drivers of pickups rarely use their beds for anything more than an occasional trip to Home Depot. That need can be easily served by a car-based vehicle like the Holden UTE, Subaru Baja, or similar vehicle. Vehicles that make much better use of increasingly expensive gasoline. As the price of gasoline remains high, and technological improvements and additions like all-wheel-drive allow companies like Honda to effectively disguise the origin of their "truck" , these drivers become increasingly likely to trade in their old bouncy guzzlers for a vehicle with the same utility - for them. The Colorado/Canyon are fine vehicles with great fuel economy, but they are trucks in the old-style sense of it, with anything but a "car like ride" (even if they are better than the average pickup), and are likely to continue to be seen as such. GM should not rely on this pair of vehicles to fend off upcoming cars with utility/cargo beds. They should be developing their own for multiple GM brands. Between a UTE-like vehicle offering a (muscle) car like ride, moderate cargo hauling ability, an HHR variant with an open cargo area, and the small GM pickups offered in 4-door form - that have refused to go the way of the hulking, guzzling HEMI-powered "mid-sizer" from Dodge, GM may well be able to keep their bases covered -- and prevent another situation where they wait on the sidelines to see how the competition does, only to join in with too little, too late. The idea of the car-based pickup might be old, but it is valid one in this age of crossovers. Perhaps I'm simply biased because I sure wouldn't mind owning one with the right features, but I hope that GM takes this potentially up-and-coming segment seriously. __________________ The Latest: Necromancer A Web Browser for the Commodore 64? Last edited by Ming : 01-03-2005 at 12:39 AM.

09-23-2004, 09:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Hudson 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,224	It sounds like a great theory...Honda and Toyota launching car-based pickups. The problem remains that small pickups don't sell well. Have you looked into the sales numbers of the last years of the El Camino/Caballero? After Ford dropped the Ranchero in 1979, GM had the market all to themselves (except for the VW Rabbit and Dodge Rampage/Plymouth Scamp), and still couldn't sell too many. While they are desired by collectors now, they didn't sell well at the time. Granted, that was two decades ago and things have changed...who would have called the Dodge Magnum anything but a station wagon in 1987, but it's a "truck" today. Aside from the Honda SUT (which looks to be a success) and the Subaru Baja (which is less than a success), I don't see much of a new wave of car-based pickups. If the Baja had been a hit...my vote would be different. And even with the potential of a success in the SUT, I think few will follow Honda's lead. The other problem with the theory is based on Toyota's reasoning for moving the Tacoma larger. The traditional "small pickup" market has all but dried up. If it's not a "mid-sized" pickup, it probably won't sell...atleast that's how the traditional, body-on-frame truck market is. Unless someone can come up with an interesting new take on the small pickup (like I thought the Baja would be), small pickups are all but dead. __________________ Hudson www.carspace.com/hudsonthedog

09-23-2004, 10:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
gmsickofan 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,931	If the car-based pickup is kind of like the evolution of the hatchback wagon thing now, it could work from that angle. Wagon used to be a dirty word. __________________ Rick Wagoner, our hero, plots the mega-merger (buyout) of GM by Toyota. Just go buy a Toyota now, your GM car will be "co-built" by GM and Toyota in the future anyway, and your resale will be higher.

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09-23-2004, 09:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
doh 6.0 Liter LS2 V8 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: N.W.Ontario Posts: 4,722	I would have to argue the fact that car based pick-ups are the next big thing. The SSR although higher in the price market, we also had the Subaru Brat (not well recieved ) but Subaru is tring again. What about Sport Trac, Colorado\Caynon etc. They are holding thier on but not really gaining momentum. They are vey car like and would lead me to believe if people are tring to down size thier numbers would jump up.

09-23-2004, 11:29 AM	#9 (permalink)
ByTheLake 6.2 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Traverse City, MI Drives: '04 Corvette, '08 CTS Posts: 2,695	Personally, I love the Holden Ute. I wouldn't judge the potential success of offering a Ute-type vehicle in the US based on the GTO issues. The GTO misses because of its non-GTO styling. The Ute really has El Camino type styling and would make a great Chevy, if priced accordingly. I would consider a car-type pickup if it had 4 doors and a decent bed size. No mini-car trucks like the Subaru ... too tiny of a bed.

09-23-2004, 11:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Z28x 3.8 Liter Supercharged V6 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 649	Holden UTE = Yes Honduh SUT = NO well I guess technically the Honda is a pickup based on a FWD minivan :roflmao:

09-23-2004, 01:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
stewacide 3.8 Liter Supercharged V6 Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 580	Does nobody remember the Ford Freestyle concept that could be converted into a wagon, pickup, or sedan? Apparently the mechanism was well designed and production ready. With tonnes of interior space, a tall ride, loads of versatility, AWD, and a Ford badge I don't see how it wouldn't dominate the car-based pickup market... assuming there is one.

09-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
dreadnaught1181 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Houston, TX Drives: 2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT Posts: 903	I personally find the Holden UTE and its Ford counterpart badass. While I know they would only appeal to a very limited audience here, I would like to at least see them offered.

09-23-2004, 01:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
ibechip 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Minot, ND Posts: 819	Want comthing to take down that Magnum? GIVE US THE UTE!!! Ok so maybe it's not a direct competitor but, in my mind, that's exactly what a modern El Camino should look like. I think the biggest shortcoming of the Baja is that there is no cover for the cargo area. The UTE has that down pat. Stick the I5 in there and give us a LS2 for a small amount of SS models and BAM you got the new El Camino. I'm lovin it.

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