Cadillac Should Lose the DTS

[Garmar]

Keep something similar to the DTS but change it to rear wheel drive in two years and upgrade it wherever it's needed. Space in a car is the ultimate luxury and that's what the DTS has.

With the CTS moving up market in size, the next new Cadillac should be sized between the current DTS and STS with the current STS going away too.

[gopedxr7]

The DTS is needed. taxi, and limo service, old people, the businesses that require a car that has a column shifter. plus a fwd vehicle to compete with other luxury fwd cars. though the styling could be a little less old person, its still a car worth having around. but i do agree that it is the preceived flag ship in a brand where the other cars are better fit for that tittle.

Alan

[Ghrankenstein]

First off, this whole thread is the kind of spirited, product-oriented debate that I love seeing on GMI. It's why I love writing here, and why I think you guys are the best critics there are.

With that, and with all due respects to GMCSonoma,

I agree....just like GM killing Olds, thinking all those loyal customers would flock to Chevy, Saturn or Buick...not!

Just like Olds, all those loyal customers are waiting six months to buy fleet cars. Not all of them, of course, but a huge chunk of them, a quarter of them. Beyond that quarter of them, another big chunk is waiting until the end of the year, when there are fat rebates because that's how they're used to buying DeVilles; another chunk of customers that isn't valuable to Cadillac.

Here it is another way:

The current $42,000+ (base) DTS is catering to a customer that is accustomed to paying $28,000-$35,000. That's Lucerne territory, and it's murder to both Cadillac and Buick to allow.

I'm a salesperson, but here I'm an editorialist. Program cars make me a lot more money than new cars. Certified pre-owned Cadillac means something. Right now, the certified DTS's are freaking sold out, meaning that the fleet sales, and their horrendous resales, are more important to the people buying them. There will be another surge late in the model year when incentives fatten up again, but until then I'm selling program Cads.

It bugs the heck out of me that a customer comes in, looking at a Cadillac car (i.e. not an Escalade), and asks me what the top of the line is. They want the top of the line, and that's it. I ask them about what they want, which makes me look like a schmuck because there should be "a" top of the line, and the top of the line is either the smaller STS, or cheaper than the smaller STS. If my primitive brain can only barely grasp it, just imagine that of the customer, who would rather get a used one for cheaper either way.

Perhaps it's just as easy that Cadillac sell out in the long run, and delete the STS from its lineup. Whatever they call it, though a future "DTS," "ULS," "BAC," "HAFCS," "BFC-9000," should represent a convincing upgrade over the [future] STS.

[steve333]

They never should have changed the name.
They should haave kept it as the Deville, designed it a little retro and then came out with a 2 door Coupe Deville-retro of course.

[macphisto]

Originally Posted by Ghrankenstein

Killing the G-body DTS, and replacing it with a truly higher-line model, would resolve this.

And that's what is going to happen. The DTS has a RWD future. While the STS will be longer and sportier, the DTS will be longer than the STS and wider while featuring RWD with an AWD option. There are plans for a RWD replacement for Lucerne as well, but much better differentiation and it won't be as large as DTS. The Lucerne will be about the size of the new STS but more of a pure luxury vehicle - not as much sportiness for the Buick.

[98Corvette]

Originally Posted by smk4565

The DTS is a necessary evil. They need a car for hearse/limo/taxi/rental fleets, and to appease the older folks that want a big car. The STS actually needs to become sportier, and can no way be used for limos, hearses, etc. Cadillac needs a whole different car to compete with the S-Class and 7-series, and actually that car should be smaller than the DTS also, the DTS is huge, 6 inches longer than a S-Class I think.

I agree, wasn't the DTS Cadillac's largest volume vehicle last year?
(yes I know it does a fair share of (EVILLLLLL) fleet sales) regardless, doesnt that make the DTS important?

[GM-Joe]

You have a very good point and I feel similarly, though a little differently. To me the STS is midgrade, yet I don't necessarily see the DTS as the flagship; kind of weird, I see no flagship for Cadillac and other luxury makers not quite with the prestige of benz, bimmer, and lexus. Thus my proposition is to continue to keep the DTS and Lucerne as its cheap little brother, but develop an S Series fighter, something about a foot longer than the STS. Possibly develop a platform and sell a 70k and a 120k ride off the same platform; luxury and ultra luxury. But all in all I think with the correct positioning the DTS can do what it is supposed to do, be a large cruiser for more sedate and less enthusiastic drivers.

[Ghrankenstein]

Originally Posted by 98Corvette

I agree, wasn't the DTS Cadillac's largest volume vehicle last year?
(yes I know it does a fair share of (EVILLLLLL) fleet sales) regardless, doesnt that make the DTS important?

I already wrote this, but:

Here it is another way:

The current $42,000+ (base) DTS is catering to a customer that is accustomed to paying $28,000-$35,000. That's Lucerne territory, and it's murder to both Cadillac and Buick to allow.

Isn't that far more evil than necessary?

[AndrewGS]

Until there is a serious big Cadillac ye olde K-Body DTS must exist. In all honesty Buick needs a serious big car too, not a classic G-Body.

[CobaltSScrazy]

Originally Posted by Ghrankenstein

If I read one more comment like this, I'm likely to close the thread.

The current DTS is competing with itself on the pre-owned market.

The used (fleet/"program") DTS is lowering the resale value of not only the new DTS, but the smaller STS, thus dragging the STS down with it.

Thus the DTS is killing Cadillac from the inside out, when Cadillac has so much going for it. I'll leave it to Mgescuro to elaborate why Cadillac doesn't have so much going for it, but I feel that Cadillac has a lot going for it right now.

Killing the G-body DTS, and replacing it with a truly higher-line model, would resolve this.

exactly.

If you want to keep DTS, make it rwd, charge 20k+ more per car with appropriate features/options, give it a leather stitched dash etc. with an Ultra V8 and 6speed auto.

DTS should die in its current form and GM can create STS-L with an SLS interior and call it a day as far as I'm concerned (with the upgraded powertrain of course). Start STS-L at 65k and have it go to 85/100k range. People who want a large luxury American full size car NEED TO START COUGHING UP SOME SERIUOS COIN TO GET IT!!! If you dont want to do that buy a impala/gp/lucerne or go ford and get a town car. Lexus doesn't sell the LS for 45k neither does Mercedes w/ Sclass or BMW w/ 7 series or Audi with A8 so why should Cadillac, honestly?

CobaltSScrazy

[Ghrankenstein]

Finally, someone (CobaltSSCrazy) not only gets it, but they get why.

Bravo!

Now go get me some yabbies, and some stomachs.

[redimpss5]

I think the DTS is a great entry level Cadillac. Leave it in the fleet, so people can enjoy the car. Since most of those don't care which wheels are the drive wheels, it will serve them well, so when it's time for the next car, they will go to an STS instead. You got to admit, for a entry level car, this sure beats the Cimmaron!

[Aych Es Vee]

I think the DTS should be replaced by the Cadillac Sixteen.

[asrapid]

cadillac should offer big luxury sedan with rwd and new v8..and for people who don't want to drive rwd offer them an awd capability. And make it a true s class competitor. Not something in between s and e class. Cadillac is american luxury mark. They should act like one. If you want cheap big car buy something from buick or chevy .

[stevews602]

Caddy needs to ditch the blue hair crowd and complete the image makeover.

They also need to fire the idots who come up with the naming conventions.
DTS, STS, CTS, it's all BS and confusing to the masses, they need to hire someone with a brain and come up with real names.