Cadillac Should Lose the DTS

[nsap]

I like the DTS, but my fondness for the car doesn't cloud my judgement in that I think it should die. Killing the DTS (as it is now) is a must if Caddy is going to be taken completely serious. The big-name luxury marques do not have old people/rental cars.

[asim]

I agree that the DTS is cannibalizing sales of Cadillac, and that the DTS is the "different one". Also with the DTS, Cadillac does not have a "true" flagship sedan. I think that Cadillac should have went on to go build the new ULS (or whatever they wanted to call it) flagship, it would have made Cadillac so much better.

I DO NOT agree, to kill off the DTS though. There are many Cadillac loyals that will want the DTS and not anything else. You don't want them to settle in a Lincoln, do you? I think that they should revolutionize the DTS though. Make it so that it can appeal to the older generation, while winning over younger buyer. Then you can make the Lucerne have all the features of the old DTS.

[GMCSonoma]

I personally think GM ruined the full size FWD with the Lucerne, after turning out cars like the Park Avenue, LeSabre, POS-Bonneville & Aurora. IMO...the DTS is the only thing left in this segment that GM has worthwhile to me...it doesn't look like a pseudo-avalon...

[goblue]

I disagreee with killing the DTS. Here's why. Buick needs a car like this - and will have one for a long time, there is very little expense in rebadging this for Cadillac, offering it at a higher feature point, and considering the Buick theme vs A&S Cadillac theme are near opposites, its nice to give customers an option. There are still plenty of American's young and old that like this type of vehicle. That said, it needs the appropriate transmission and further refinement, and AWD capability. I'm not diametrically opposed to it being RWD.

Saying the DTS is stopping the ULS is also IMO not factual. Whats stopping the ULS is appropriate powertrains and an appropriate platform. GM simply doesn't want to spend the money right now to engineer a low volume platform with new, low volume engines. It seems thats changing, rumors are surfacing about a V12 version of Ultra, as well as new DOHC V8s that would provide the needed options. It also appears an 8 speed trans may be coming. GM seems to be aligning all the necessary hardware first. A luxury Zeta platform with Sigma II hardware seems to be the target. The DTS is not stopping this from occuring.

If Cadillac has the appropriate lineup of RWD vehicles from the BLS to the ULS, I see no problem with a FWD/AWD large sedan priced between 40-50K that is unabashadly biased towards comfort. Its perfectly reasonable for Cadillac to serve this crowd, especially when the platform and hardware investments are shared with a Buick, provided its differentiated, and when you compare A&S with the new Buick image highlighted by Enclave - thats not an issue.

[jbartley]

the DTS is fine. Cadillac needs this vehicle, as much as it needs the CTS.

However, the dismal sales of the STS make it seem that the DTS should be canned. I can assure you people are not cross shopping them.

Killing the DTS won't make them run to the STS. that would be illogical thinking.

If lexus can have the IS and the ES, then Cadillac can have a STS/DTS coexist.

[Ghrankenstein]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

I personally think GM ruined the full size FWD with the Lucerne, after turning out cars like the Park Avenue, LeSabre, POS-Bonneville & Aurora. IMO...the DTS is the only thing left in this segment that GM has worthwhile to me...it doesn't look like a pseudo-avalon...

Fortunately for Toyota, and the immediate customer, the Toyota had a good idea of where the non-premium luxury sedan market is going. I've reviewed the Avalon, but not the Lucerne (maybe I should), but the Lucerne will not be mistaken for any Toyota. Buick lacks a tail-end signature, but that's as far as it goes. It doesn't matter with the Avalon, bad for Buick, and default to the Avalon.

I've posted this something like twice already: The DTS is, because of its fleet sales, its customer base, and its price point, a used car when it hits the market. It's a great non-pseudo Avalon by then, but it's not a good new Cadillac.

[Ghrankenstein]

(Mags) I should get a reference for this article.

You and GMCSonoma were among the "inspirations" for the article.

"Thank" "You"

[56 Starchief]

the question of the day is what car would be best suited to hearse work when the DTS dies?

CTS? uh...no.

Escalade? Maybe...

Make the DTS fleet only? YES.

[cadillac jack]

Originally Posted by gdsm3

I understand where your coming from, but I don't think killing DTS is the answer. What Cadillac needs to do is just up the ante with the STS and keep the DTS as the front drive cruiser that it is. Look at how successful Lexus is with the ES350......people love it because they get that fancy little "L" on a midsize, non-sporty, front wheel drive car at a much lower price. Sure you could probably get a Camry or Avalon with more options at a lower price, but it doesn't have that special Lexus aura surrounding it.

What Caddy needs to do is overshadow the DTS with a true ultimate luxury sedan that is high on style, technology, class, and a little bit of sport just like the S-class, etc. If they do kill the DTS I think they should replace it with a midsized sedan with the same kind of attributes (fwd, cruiser, barely worthy of the badge it wears).

They really need to model the DTS after the Lexus ES 350. They both go after the same crowd. GM needs to put every electric gizmo on they can, shrink it to ES 350 size, and just make it quieter and have higher horsepower and torque numbers with the high feature 3.6 liter V6 and six speed transaxle, with an option for the hopped up Northstar V8.

Even though thats exactly what the Lucerne should be.

[boblutzfan]

The DTS and Lucerne are necessary evils. If GM killed the DTS and elevated the trim level of the Lucerne to DTS level - then you would all be criticizing GM for their "American Lexus" having a big FWD sedan.

Folks - get used to it - there is a market for these cars and GM is the only brand currently filling that market. No one else makes a FWD V8 powered luxury car any more. For some folks - nothing else will do.

The DTS is to Cadillac what the ES350 is to Lexus. Does the ES350 fit in with the rest of the RWD Lexus line? No. But is sells like crazy. Why would Lexus cancel such a popular sedan just because it doesn't compete with the European sports sedan or with a CTS? It isn't supposed to. The ES350 is for those folks that want a fully loaded Camry without a Toyota badge. The ES350 gives Lexus luxury on a simple easy to manufacture chassis that shares development cost with the Camry.

So - Cadillac has the DTS and Lucerne which share parts and cater to the crowd that wants a FWD luxury sedan. Not everyone wants a CTS folks. If you look at the sales numbers - GM/Cadillac would be insane to kill it off.

Now if that is the case - what should they do? I think they should spend the same time, money and effort expended on the CTS on the current STS. Give it a naturally aspirated DOHC V8 that has near 400 HP, a longer chassis that gives S-class/LS/7-series interior room and give it an interior that makes the CTS look entry level. The kind of buyer that shops for a CTS is the one that can't quite swing an STS (if it were properly developed...) and wouldn't be caught dead in a DTS. But the same goes for Lexus - an IS buyer wouldn't be caught dead in an ES.

So what Cadillac needs to do is put the new six speed automatic in the DTS and call her good for another few years and turn 100% of its developmental efforts to the STS. Give it a new V8, all new interior (better than the Chinese SLS) and a dramatically new/updated exterior. Let the profits from the DTS fund the STS revolution...

[63GrandSport001]

I completely agree with this thread maker, the DTS from what Ive heard is mostly fleet sales and a certian customer base that seems to be dropping ffrom a peak sales of something like 140,000 to just 60,000 in 2005 if I remember right. GM needs to not just kill it off but they need to make sure that something else slots up in its spot to replace it but something thats actually going to sale well to the general public.

Maybe make a new RWD/AWD DTS with much better interior and exterior styling but with a higher price tag.

The big front wheel drive sedan market is going to die off, it doesnt matter how well you make the car at this point because you can get a 300 or a Charger instead. As much as I love GM and I love Cadillac I would actually pic a 300 over a DTS.

[DanCBJMS1988]

Well, here's the dilemma. The STS (and also the SLS) are going to get bigger than the DTS one of these days, simply because Cadillac will need to make room for the BLS/BTS. This would push the CTS to clearly within E-Class and 5-Series range, whilst the BLS/BTS would handle the C-Class and 3-Series crowd. This leaves GM with a problem. Either they kill the DTS and risk losing fleet sales and thus push the STS within those sights (that is a true S-Class/7-Series competitor), or they try to keep the status quo. This is not an easy decision.

What would I think should be done? Simple.

BTS/BLS = C-Class/3-Series
CTS = E-Class/5-Series
STS/SLS = CLS
DTS/DLS (probably on a LWB Zeta) = S-Class/7-Series

Who's with me?

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by Ghrankenstein

You and GMCSonoma were among the "inspirations" for the article.

"Thank" "You"

I was????

[regfootball]

oh yeah, its smart to give up caddy's biggest volume car to loyal customers.

?

the dts needs upgrades, but the basic concept of the car, large comfy 'soft' caddy is what caddy always has been to millions of people.

that new GM v8 is out in 2009. mate it to the new 6 speed auto and get it in an AWD chassis. this type of car needs a top notch interior. GM needs to spend big $$$$$ on the interior of the next DTS, and give it good luxury feature content.

Many of you folks are right. The DTS is the Caddy ES and folks love em.

Caddy does need a car to tackle the 5 series head on and a car to tackle the s class head on. The CTS for 08 should do fine in tackling much of the entry lux drivers car market.

[Grizzlor]

go back to calling the cars Deville, Seville, Eldorado, and Fleetwood.