Cadillac-Becoming the Standard Once More

[ChevroletRevived]

Ok, say what you will.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Oh please.... THAT article? "The Escalade's better because it's blingier... because the grille is bigger and the caddy logo is bigger." Whatever. That was a fluff piece.

On a side note... the photos from that article were taken at the St. Regis Hotel in Dana Point, CA. I was reading that article in the lobby, thinking "where have I seen doorway before???" I thought that was pretty cool, actually.

Escalade is a solid car. But it is deficient in a number of luxury items and just has stupid stuff, which points to obvious cost-cutting and rebadging efforts. All that... for $62,000. No way.

Greetings Mgescuro,

I have not evaluated the Cadillac Escalade. I am curious, what is the best in class full size luxury SUVs 1st, 2nd and 3rd place positions in your view and what separates them?

JLM

[cawimmer430]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Escalade is wrong for Europe. However, I don't believe it's because of the size, etc. It essentially is the same size as a Range Rover, except the Caddy is about 6-8" longer.
Diesel is a must, but GM won't do it, because they're shortsighted.
Cadillac does need to hit the right target segment in Europe. What that is? Footballers maybe?
Other than that... this is Range Rover territory.

And that's the issue, isn't it. WHat Escalade is to Americans is "big brash luxury." In Europe, it too is "big brash luxury." However, in Europe, that just doesn't work. It won't work.
It's not refined enough. It's too large. It's not luxurious enough. Cheap plastics in the rear.

Cadillac had the opportunity to raise the bar with Escalade. They did not. Competing with the Range Rover in the US is one thing... competing with it in Europe? No contest.

The Range Rover is big, but it doesn't look as visually massive as the Escalade. Range Rovers are also a rare sight here, perhaps in the big cities were the wealthy live. The Escalade is also at a disadvantage because SUV's like the Audi Q7, BMW X5, Range Rover and Mercedes ML are seen as "hip" and "sporty". The Escalade doesn't appear sporty, but boaty I'm afraid. It just won't fly. I don't even think there is a target market for the Escalade here.

Celebrities, as you mentioned, perhaps, but even then, that's a very very small market. And not every celebrity will want one either.

The two things that will prevent the Escalade from selling here are size and the lack of a diesel engine. People can live with the interior, which isn't too bad IMHO. The size is problematic for some of the narrow roads here, or parking. Engine-wise, it's no secret that the V8 of the Escalade isn't going to be economical. Gas here costs 1.40 per liter in my area. That's about what, $7.50-8 per gallon!

One more thing, the SRX is also not very appealing here. The V6 option is "ok", but the V8 isn't. You don't see many Audi Q7, BMW X5, Range Rover and MB ML's here with V8's. Most of them are Q7 3.0 TDI's, X5 3.0d's and ML320 CDI's.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

The Range Rover is big, but it doesn't look as visually massive as the Escalade. Range Rovers are also a rare sight here, perhaps in the big cities were the wealthy live. The Escalade is also at a disadvantage because SUV's like the Audi Q7, BMW X5, Range Rover and Mercedes ML are seen as "hip" and "sporty". The Escalade doesn't appear sporty, but boaty I'm afraid. It just won't fly. I don't even think there is a target market for the Escalade here.

You're right, the RR doesn't look as visually massive as Escalade. RR tapers a bit, the width is nearly identical. When I was in Germany and Austria, I saw a good number of RR's. But I was in big cities.
The only key to Escalade's success is it can bee seen as "hip and sporty." IT's 50-50, I think. Escalade is a more solid drive that previous generation Escalades. But I haven't driven the new GL or Q7 to really get a comparison. (Q7 really isn't in Escalade's class though.)

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

Celebrities, as you mentioned, perhaps, but even then, that's a very very small market. And not every celebrity will want one either.

That is very true.

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

The two things that will prevent the Escalade from selling here are size and the lack of a diesel engine. People can live with the interior, which isn't too bad IMHO. The size is problematic for some of the narrow roads here, or parking. Engine-wise, it's no secret that the V8 of the Escalade isn't going to be economical. Gas here costs 1.40 per liter in my area. That's about what, $7.50-8 per gallon!

THe diesel is necessary. There should be absolutely no problem with Escalade getting one. but getting GM to do it is another story.
THe interior really isn't that bad. Most of it is "soft-touch" and the seats are great (though they could be more supportive.. but its' a truck...) My argument with the interior is the excessive use of parts bin, the fake wood, and the cheap plastic.

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

One more thing, the SRX is also not very appealing here. The V6 option is "ok", but the V8 isn't. You don't see many Audi Q7, BMW X5, Range Rover and MB ML's here with V8's. Most of them are Q7 3.0 TDI's, X5 3.0d's and ML320 CDI's.

Yeah... SRX needs a diesel option too. OH well.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Greetings Mgescuro,

I have not evaluated the Cadillac Escalade. I am curious, what is the best in class full size luxury SUVs 1st, 2nd and 3rd place positions in your view and what separates them?

JLM

Well, considering I've only driven the Range Rover and the Escalade...
1) Range Rover
2) Escalade

I use my regular, attention to detail, design, sophistication, etc. ALso looking at the uniqueness and exterior styling.

Both I think are equally striking exterior wise. INterior is where I run into trouble. Range Rover's interior is very high quality, but not necessarily the most cohesive. Escalade's interior flow quite nicely, but it's saddled with the excessive use of parts bin and it isn't uniquely Cadillac. The column shifter on the Escalade isn't the best either. Positioning of the manual shift button is awkward. It really should have been a console shifter. I don't buy GM's spin of "Saving more space." Let's hope the next H2 doesn't ahve a column shifter.

I need to drive a GL, but judging by the pics and generic styling, I'd put it at #3.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

Check this out, Cadillac is planning on selling the Escalade in Europe. Personally, I think this is a big mistake and another drain on GM's resources.

Europeans want something:

1) Smaller (roads are narrow and small here)
2) Practical (an Escalade might be hip in the US, but it's not practical or appealing over here)
3) Diesel engine option is a must in Europe
4) Handling (the Escalade won't cut it on the sharp roads here, especially where I live (countryside))

I know it is in German, but hey, it's proof.

what the heck are they saying about this Caddy?

is it the Glitter Wagon? (shinny Wagon?)

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Escalade is wrong for Europe. However, I don't believe it's because of the size, etc. It essentially is the same size as a Range Rover, except the Caddy is about 6-8" longer.
Diesel is a must, but GM won't do it, because they're shortsighted.
Cadillac does need to hit the right target segment in Europe. What that is? Footballers maybe?
Other than that... this is Range Rover territory.

And that's the issue, isn't it. WHat Escalade is to Americans is "big brash luxury." In Europe, it too is "big brash luxury." However, in Europe, that just doesn't work. It won't work.
It's not refined enough. It's too large. It's not luxurious enough. Cheap plastics in the rear.

Cadillac had the opportunity to raise the bar with Escalade. They did not. Competing with the Range Rover in the US is one thing... competing with it in Europe? No contest.

Man do not use that refined word on us.

[Animalmother]

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

Check this out, Cadillac is planning on selling the Escalade in Europe. Personally, I think this is a big mistake and another drain on GM's resources.

Europeans want something:

1) Smaller (roads are narrow and small here)
2) Practical (an Escalade might be hip in the US, but it's not practical or appealing over here)
3) Diesel engine option is a must in Europe
4) Handling (the Escalade won't cut it on the sharp roads here, especially where I live (countryside))

I know it is in German, but hey, it's proof.

Some will see it as that, and others will se it as a 60k dollar exotic. I personally think it was a bad idea, but they're the ones thinking this through day in and day out so I could be wrong.

[Kheiron]

Ironically it seems that the Escalade is a size bigger than its X5, Q7, etc. competitors. The SRX seems better equipped size wise to compete with them. Ironically, its a top-notch award winning vehicle, but still doesn't sell up to its potential.

[ChevroletRevived]

I think the SRX will sell alot better with it's new, top of the class interior.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Kheiron

Ironically it seems that the Escalade is a size bigger than its X5, Q7, etc. competitors. The SRX seems better equipped size wise to compete with them. Ironically, its a top-notch award winning vehicle, but still doesn't sell up to its potential.

See.. I dunno why people compare escalade with X5 and Q7. That's nonsense.
Escalade only has 2 major competitors.... Range Rover and the GL.

[Kheiron]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

See.. I dunno why people compare escalade with X5 and Q7. That's nonsense.
Escalade only has 2 major competitors.... Range Rover and the GL.

I dunno either, my guess though is that the Escalade is Cadillac's iconic SUV and largest/flagship suv, whereas BMW/Audi do not have any but the comparison is made in terms of price/biggest suv the car company sells.

Competitor-wise, what about the Navigator or QX? (Escalade has those owned imo, but still?)

[ChevroletRevived]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

See.. I dunno why people compare escalade with X5 and Q7. That's nonsense.
Escalade only has 2 major competitors.... Range Rover and the GL.

I agree. The X5 should not be considered a competitor for the Escalade..the SRX, totally, but not the Escalade.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Kheiron

Competitor-wise, what about the Navigator or QX? (Escalade has those owned imo, but still?)

YEah... i forgot those 2.

[cawimmer430]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

You're right, the RR doesn't look as visually massive as Escalade. RR tapers a bit, the width is nearly identical. When I was in Germany and Austria, I saw a good number of RR's. But I was in big cities.
The only key to Escalade's success is it can bee seen as "hip and sporty." IT's 50-50, I think. Escalade is a more solid drive that previous generation Escalades. But I haven't driven the new GL or Q7 to really get a comparison. (Q7 really isn't in Escalade's class though.)


That is very true.


THe diesel is necessary. There should be absolutely no problem with Escalade getting one. but getting GM to do it is another story.
THe interior really isn't that bad. Most of it is "soft-touch" and the seats are great (though they could be more supportive.. but its' a truck...) My argument with the interior is the excessive use of parts bin, the fake wood, and the cheap plastic.


Yeah... SRX needs a diesel option too. OH well.

I think the Escalade is a good-looking truck, but I don't think it can be marketed as "sporty". It just doesn't look like a sporty car. I am sure the ride and handling have improved over the previous generation, but I don't think it'll be a match for the nimbler German SUV competition and the RR.

If Cadillac wants to sell the Escalade in Europe, they'll have a hard time. A diesel engine will help, but owners also expect their Escalade to be offroad capable.

Last summer, I worked for a Mercedes-Benz dealership in Mühldorf. I was there when the new ML-Class appeared and got to read the salesman guide to selling the M-Class. The booklet was full of interesting market research data about the SUV market, buyer demographics and expectations etc.

73% of ML owners take it offroad.

That figure surprised me, since I thought that most luxury SUV owners will never take it offroad. I guess market research is more factual than the stuff being said on car forums.

The Escalade is still too big however and that is a big drawback for Europe. Parking garages here are so narrow and tight, you have problems driving down with an S-Class: sometimes even an E-Class! An Escalade? No chance. Some of our roads are so narrow, two average cars can barely squeeze by each other. An Escalade won't make it.

Again, diesels are very important here. Lexus is flopping because they don't offer one. The IS220d is a start, but this car lacks the comprehensive safety package of the IS250 and the IS220d doesn't come with an automatic transmission option - when its competitors offer one for their cars which compete against the IS220d.

Another thing, if GM offers a diesel for the Escalade, it has to be a reasonable one. A 6.2-l V8 turbodiesel won't sell either, as we Europeans are taxed on power output and engine capacity. Something sensible, like a 3.5-l V6 turbodiesel is better and within limits. The question however is, is a V6 diesel up to the job of moving such a heavy barge around? Most likely the result would be underpowered. That means the Escalade will need a bigger diesel engine and that again will turn off potential buyers, which won't be many to begin with.

All this says one thing: GM, don't bring it over.