2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

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Thread: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

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    2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    2016 Camaro Forum
    2016
    Camaro & El Camino
    Back to the Future




    Op-Ed by MonaroSS
    GMI Contributor – 3 March 2013




    Which direction should GM go? All new and modern, or continue developing the very popular retro style of the Gen5 Camaro? It’s a valid question, and one that has been asked many times in the threads of this forum. Just recently ChevroletRevived and FBODYRULES proposed staying the course and evolving the Gen5 styling. Many, perhaps most, who responded to that thread disagreed. I have been in that camp, the group that wanted a new direction, but I now find myself more firmly behind the evolution of the Gen5. Here is the reason why…

    It is very hard to design a winning new design. Just look at how members here bag on new designs from the large car companies who spend billions and have the most professional of designers and market researchers to guide those decisions. So if the best of the best, and there are only about 200 car designers in the entire world, can’t get it right most of the time, then that means there is no sure thing. A bit like music, a big music company can hire the best professional songwriters, but some kid on YouTube doodles down a tune that gets a million hits and propels them to stardom, while the professional efforts languish. Why? Because it’s art, not science.

    Some things just take the public’s fancy, be it the hook in a simple song that sells millions, or the long hood short rear deck proportions of a new small car called Mustang that just hits the public’s sweet spot.

    So the old saying is that, “when you are on a good thing – stick to it”. Most songwriters who get a hit song can get more hits by writing similar tunes. And so it is with car design. GM could write a new song that everyone loves, or it could go clang.

    Would we have wanted the next Camaro to look like the Toyota Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ ? It’s not a bad design, even if a little awkward in places. But that’s what you get with brand new design - experimentation that may or may not fully work. Yes evolution is more predictable, but it’s also like going into a McDonalds or Subways when you are travelling abroad, you at least know you are unlikely to get a bellyache compared to experimenting with the local cuisine…

    Below I’ve provided Gen5 comparison pics so people can see the evolution. I wanted the cabin to have better visibility and be less claustrophobic. It had to be smaller and with a taller tumblehome (glasshouse) but it still needed to have pony car muscular looks. That is a hard task as it is always easier to make a car look hotter by lowering the roofline, so I went with a fastback design to spread the roofline over a longer area and thus help disguise it greater height. I also swept the lower window line down for a Coke Bottle effect to gain more glass area. I also retained the pony car muscles with curving fender hips over the front and rear wheels, but softened them from the hard lines of the Gen5 for a more modern interpretation…



    Click to Enlarge














    OK. So above I’ve gone for evolution for Camaro and have simply added a cargo bed out back to turn it into an El Camino. This is not a pick-up truck for hauling heavy loads. With only a 5ft bed length, if you want to carry some dirt bikes you will have to do so with the tailgate down. Camaro is on 109 inch WB (same as ATS), with the El Camino 8 inches longer on 117 inch WB.

    I used the long door from the Camaro and it’s tilt forward seats so that the extra space I have allowed behind those seats is easily accessible to put shopping or grocery bags. When there are two on board on a rainy day, and when you are carrying something in the bed that prevents the use of a cover, this dry safe storage will be welcome.

    Like most designers I like to use big wheels to show off a design (the large one’s are 22’s), but I have also used some wheels with more meaty sidewalls for those who complain of such things so you can see a more pothole friendly wheel tire combo.

    Finally, as this El Camino is never intended as a work truck, as it is merely a more practical sports car for the recreationally minded, I thought – might as well throw in a Targa Top version for an even sunnier driving experience.

    Also, as an interesting move reflecting the hotrod scene, I think GM should offer some matt colors like the matt black and matt orange below...



    Click to Enlarge














    Below I show the two headlight design options available, one similar to the Gen5, the other an LED choice harkening back to the Gen1 RS headlight covers. The Gen5 face is there for comparison.

    In addition to the Camaro and El Camino I have also done a 4-door Camaro that I call the Camarada (also on 117 WB) which some will recall I have shown before - but is updated here. The Camarada SS is a workingman’s Panamera and could step in from 2017 to replace the Chevrolet SS if no other car is suitable.

    The Camarada SS shares the same platform as the El Camino, and same drive train and interior as it and Camaro. A four door version of a coup does not share anything other than taillight with it’s coupe from the A pillar back, so I believe if you are going to pay for all those expensive sheet metal press dies, you may as well use a unique styling. So I added new hood, front fenders, and clip and rear taillights to get a fully unique niche vehicle that can exploit a different market.

    While sharing so much with the Camaro and El Camino internally, but only sharing the windshield as an outside surface, the Camarada can and does eschew the retro of the Gen5 and instead evolves the look of the Gen4 Camaro instead for a more Euro look. People who want Americana can get that in the Camaro and El Camino but, as a vehicle to be sold around the world, the Camarada looks to the front of the last modern Camaro and to the rear of the next C7 Corvette for styling inspiration…



    Click to Enlarge















    And lastly we come to the 800R Program. I have mentioned this before about how GM took a turbo Ecotec I4 engine and kept upping the boost for more power, and as things broke they strengthened them, until eventually they had an engine that could make 800hp without breaking. Well this 800R Program would do the same thing, but with GM’s new Twin Turbo V6. Ticking the 800R box on the options sheet gets an expensive (but cheaper than doing it yourself) upgraded racing block and innards for the V6TT, capable of making up to 800hp without breaking. This is for people serious about racing the new Camaro. Then GM works with outside suppliers to offer Stage 1 (450-550hp), Stage 2 (550-650hp) and Stage 3 (650-800hp) kits that add bigger turbo’s and exhausts, larger intercoolers, bigger radiators, oil coolers, manifolding and drive-train upgrades etc.

    Stage 1 is for street machines, Stage 2 for those who want to race/drift it, or just have a really mean track-day car; and Stage 3 is for drag racing and nutters…



    Click to Enlarge







    PS. I've been working on a more aggressive face...












    Last edited by Administrator; 08-13-2014 at 06:03 AM.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Love the profile of all of them, not sure about the front. Not bad.. but not sure. It almost looks too squished down IMO or maybe its the large opening, that's what caught my eye first. The look of the Camarada based of the 4th gen Camaro thought is very nice.. Nice job on all of them from an execution stand point obviously, just my 2 cents besides that

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Wonderful Work!! They are both awesome and could do wonders for Chevrolet! The sedan or four door coupe I am not sure about but the Camaro and El Camino are truly lovely! Based on this same theme I would like to see a Nomad version as well!------Again great work Bro!

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    The original El Camino was on a 115" WB and had a 6ft bed - even the last '78 to '87 El Camino was on a 117" WB and had the largest bed volume of any year IIRC. The Camino was never very tall - about 54" which is what something like this would be.

    I don't see why this would not at least have 6ft in bed length.

    It's an interesting option in light of the new CAFE 'targets' which are lower as wheelbase gets longer. The Camino could have a standard V6 or stand alone V8 option and probably meet it's target while the Camaro would have to have a 4cyl standard and only V8 would be a high end SS model.
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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    I could handle your design as the next Camaro. For me, the main thing by far is that the next car must lose several hundred pounds! Beyond that, I'm open to stlying as long as it isn't ugly.
    As for the El Camino, I don't think the North American market will support a vehicle like that again. It's neither a car nor a truck, and not really in a good way.
    As for the Camarada, not really, though I'd like to see some of the cool looking design features on the next Chevy SS. At least it wouldn't be so bland as the current car, which is great on the inside and under the hood, but dull on the outside, which will cost a lot of sales. Your 4-door has a lot of flair and zing to it.
    Last edited by sean975; 03-03-2013 at 08:43 AM.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    So when can I buy the Orange El Camino SS?

    Yeah I know, never.

    I wish GM would work on these concurrently with the upcoming 6th gen Camaro.
    Last edited by Orbit Orange; 03-03-2013 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    It's an interesting option in light of the new CAFE 'targets' which are lower as wheelbase gets longer. The Camino could have a standard V6 or stand alone V8 option and probably meet it's target while the Camaro would have to have a 4cyl standard and only V8 would be a high end SS model.
    A good point a longer wheelbase Ute/El Camino would more easily make those mileage requirements.

    Oh and MonaroSS,

    The forward tilt of the rear tailgate reminds me of that on the 73-77 models. Reminiscent of the '76 Elky in my garage. It does cut down on space though. It probably wouldn't look as cool but putting the tailgate straight up and down would give 2 or 3 extra precious inches of bed volume.
    Last edited by Orbit Orange; 03-03-2013 at 08:48 AM.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by KingElvis View Post
    The original El Camino was on a 115" WB and had a 6ft bed - even the last '78 to '87 El Camino was on a 117" WB and had the largest bed volume of any year IIRC. The Camino was never very tall - about 54" which is what something like this would be.

    I don't see why this would not at least have 6ft in bed length.

    It's an interesting option in light of the new CAFE 'targets' which are lower as wheelbase gets longer. The Camino could have a standard V6 or stand alone V8 option and probably meet it's target while the Camaro would have to have a 4cyl standard and only V8 would be a high end SS model.
    The bed loses about 6 inches because of the slope of the rear gate, which is a styling choice. Also the interior is bordering on a King cab, which takes away from the bed, so there is your 1ft gone. The extra WB length is also to move the rear wheels back to better take the weight of loads extending out the tailgate like those dirt bikes - without a pendulum effect, and to increase load weight of what is after all not a heavy-duty rear independent suspension from Alpha. People who want to haul will buy a real truck, this is more sport than truck, and doesn't try to pretend to be otherwise. Toss you coolers in the bed and mount your surf boards, as this baby wants to play on the beach....




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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    I love the fact you found a way to make the side windows larger, that way you don't feel like you are sitting in a tub when driving.

    Oh, and thanks MonarroSS for this thread! It's been a slow news weekend for GMI with no material GM info. Your ideas and chops are always greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure most others.
    Last edited by BlackGTP; 03-03-2013 at 09:16 AM.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    As Orbit mentioned, the '73 had the tilt forward tailgate so the floor length was actually 6.5 while the rim of the bed was 6ft. Caminos are already somewhat 'king cab' since the 64' up through the '77 all had enough room behind the seats to mount a spare tire upright. IIRC, the '68 started using the space under the bed for stowage you could acces from the cab. The '78 to '87 ingeniously used the space underneath the bed to mount a compact spare tire on one side of the driveshaft so the space immediately behind the seats increased by the amount once occupied by the spare.

    If you were using the same WB as the Camaro, I would say yes you would have to have a 5ft, but with an additional 8" WB you are very much on the same footprint that the Camino has always used (not counting the original '59 which was exceedingly wasteful in packagaing).

    This one is a full 6.5 ft and the same wheelbase.

    Last edited by KingElvis; 03-03-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    I like the profile of them both (especially the Camaro). Thank you.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    I'd buy that Camarada.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaroSS View Post
    The bed loses about 6 inches because of the slope of the rear gate, which is a styling choice. Also the interior is bordering on a King cab, which takes away from the bed, so there is your 1ft gone. The extra WB length is also to move the rear wheels back to better take the weight of loads extending out the tailgate like those dirt bikes - without a pendulum effect, and to increase load weight of what is after all not a heavy-duty rear independent suspension from Alpha. People who want to haul will buy a real truck, this is more sport than truck, and doesn't try to pretend to be otherwise. Toss you coolers in the bed and mount your surf boards, as this baby wants to play on the beach....



    For me it would be playing on the roads every day as a daily driver AND...

    Taking it to the local 1/8 mile track
    Hauling our mountain bikes to local state parks and trails
    Hauling a new appliance home from Lowes/Home Depot
    Towing my Lawn Tractor if needed
    Hauling the live Christmas Tree home every year
    Hauling rock, dirt, gravel or mulch for landscaping around my home
    Carrying our dog in his pen to parks and sites for exercise
    Tossing my bags of aluminum cans in the bed for recycling
    Bringing home a new piece of furniture (recliner, table, chairs, vanity, dresser etc.)
    Sitting in the bed watching July 4th Fireworks under a starry sky
    Producing smiles every mile

    I've done every single one of those things (and MORE) in my '76 but it is tired, rusty, out of date, sucks down gas, isn't as reliable, isn't as safe, lacks AC and a multitude of modern features and of course wouldn't have a 3/36 warranty as well.

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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by sean975 View Post

    As for the El Camino, I don't think the North American market will support a vehicle like that again. It's neither a car nor a truck, and not really in a good way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orbit Orange View Post
    For me it would be playing on the roads every day as a daily driver AND...

    Taking it to the local 1/8 mile track
    Hauling our mountain bikes to local state parks and trails
    Hauling a new appliance home from Lowes/Home Depot
    Towing my Lawn Tractor if needed
    Hauling the live Christmas Tree home every year
    Hauling rock, dirt, gravel or mulch for landscaping around my home
    Carrying our dog in his pen to parks and sites for exercise
    Tossing my bags of aluminum cans in the bed for recycling
    Bringing home a new piece of furniture (recliner, table, chairs, vanity, dresser etc.)
    Sitting in the bed watching July 4th Fireworks under a starry sky
    Producing smiles every mile

    I've done every single one of those things (and MORE) in my '76 but it is tired, rusty, out of date, sucks down gas, isn't as reliable, isn't as safe, lacks AC and a multitude of modern features and of course wouldn't have a 3/36 warranty as well.
    You need to share your thoughts with sean972 above....



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    Re: 2016 Camaro & El Camino - Back to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by KingElvis View Post
    As Orbit mentioned, the '73 had the tilt forward tailgate so the floor length was actually 6.5 while the rim of the bed was 6ft. Caminos are already somewhat 'king cab' since the 64' up through the '77 all had enough room behind the seats to mount a spare tire upright. IIRC, the '68 started using the space under the bed for stowage you could access from the cab. The '78 to '87 ingeniously used the space underneath the bed to mount a compact spare tire on one side of the driveshaft so the space immediately behind the seats increased by the amount once occupied by the spare.

    If you were using the same WB as the Camaro, I would say yes you would have to have a 5ft, but with an additional 8" WB you are very much on the same footprint that the Camino has always used (not counting the original '59 which was exceedingly wasteful in packaging).
    Going back and measuring again (trying to measure a vehicle at a slight angle distorts things a bit) it was more like 5ft 4ins but I rounded down to 5ft. And allowing for some foreshortening of inches as the pic goes further away that distortion probably adds another few inches, which at the bed height probably makes it 6ft and about 5ft 7-8 inches at the rim. The other few inches lost are in the front wheel to front door long hood proportions that I retained from the Gen5.



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