Pontiact G6 Convertible nightmares - anyone have experience with arbitration?

[TravelGrrl]

Hello,

I have a 2007 G6 Convertible. It has been in for service 14 times - each and every time because of issues with the top. Either it gets stuck, it makes metal and metal grinding noises, it leaks during a rain storm... the list goes on and on.

3 weeks ago it was in for a leak and the service manager mentioned to me I might want to contact GM to see about them repurchasing the car, because he thought it was having way to many problems. So I did.

I was assigned a rep, a case number, etc. They "supposedly" sent out a rep to look at my car. Other than the top, it's a new condition. I mean really, it has only 12K miles on it - largely because it's been on the shop so much!

Ironically, I had to return it to the shop last week for the same leak that was allegedly repaired 3 weeks ago. I was told that while it was in there, the GM rep came to look at it and told the service manager that GM wasn't repurchasing cars right now and that all of the issues wrong with it can be fixed since its under warranty. My point is, I'm making payments on a $30k car and driving whatever the rental car company gives me. 3 weeks ago I drove a Hyundai for a week, now I'm driving an HHR. Both of those are vehicles I don't deem worth $30K!!!

I spoke to the General Manager/Owner of the dealership and he's urging me to file a complaint with the BBB to open up an arbitration case. I'm curious if anyone has gone through that process? It sounds like the dealership is on my side - they've offered to give me copies of all of my repair orders. I'm just having to battle GM, during a time when they're in crisis and probably could care less about my car.

Ann

[davidlane]

I went through this with a "Vette in '96. It sounds as if your dealer is being considerably better to deal with than the one I dealt with. While this is still the case get all the info you can from the dealer. Research your state's "Lemon Law" so you know exactly what your options are. Let the dealer and GM know you are going to file complaints with your state, usually the AG's office, the BBB and then do it. Provide copies to GM and the dealer. If there's a particularly effective "consumer reporter" preferably TV in your area contact them. Let the dealer know you really appreciate their help however, you feel it is your duty to let the public know of the problem and you'll be picketing, not on dealer property but in clear view of the entrance on Saturdays till this is resolved. Notify the local media, again TV, and see if you can get them to cover you on the evening news, dealers love this. The key is to be persistent/unrelenting and follow though with everyone in the loop. Also, constantly escalate. if you don't get what you want go to the next person up the chain of command. Don't ever threaten anything you won't do. The minute you don't follow through you lose all credibility, and hope. Best wishes, hope you get what you want!

[1999 White C5 Coupe]

I underwent the BBB arbitration / repurchase in Ohio for a 1997 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28 30th anniversary convertible, purchased new. It experienced 14 separate defects in the first 4,000 miles.

I followed Ohio's law and filed the complaint myself with the BBB - in Ohio GM had agreed to abide by the BBB arbitration, which was binding upon them but not on the consumer. The Ohio law has since been updated and improved, and is now more favorable for the consumer.

Ohio's law defined a "lemon" if the car fell into one (or more) of four categories. 1) More than a predefined number of repairs within a certain mileage (if car purchased / leased new). 2) Car in the shop for repairs 30 or more days. 3) Two or more attempts to repair a safety defect (seat belt, brakes, etc.). 4) I can't remember the fourth category. My car fit three of four categories -although only one was required.

The BBB process was very easy and I presented the case myself. (The updated Ohio law now requires the automaker to pay reasonable attorney fees.) The arbitration was very easy and the Chevrolet representative did not attend the hearing in Downtown Cincinnati - but chose to participate via telephone from their suburban office (and she was late too!). The arbitrator was very friendly, but business like, and was annoyed at the Chevrolet representative's late participation (it was scheduled at her convenience).

After I filed the BBB complaint, Chevrolet offered me an extended warranty. I refused. Then, they offered me a new car. I refused.

Chevrolet (not the dealer) treated me very poorly. I won the case and received a refund of my purchase price and sales tax, minus $0.25 per mile until the first defect (at 692 miles). Chevrolet did not issue the refund through the dealer in the time required by law and I had to file another complaint - but Chevrolet then complied quickly. Ohio's law provided a refund or new car - at the consumer's option (not the automaker). Ohio's law also provided for a refund of finance costs - but I had none.

Check the law in your state - most lemon laws are very straightforward and some states even require the legal fees to be paid by the automaker (if you prevail). There are attorneys that specialize in lemon-law cases.

Good luck.

[MrCritical]

Don't have experience with the arbitration, but I can tell you the convertible is indeed a nightmare. I've had other dealer's call begging me to work on theirs.

Sorry. I don't import headaches.

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by davidlane

If there's a particularly effective "consumer reporter" preferably TV in your area contact them. Let the dealer know you really appreciate their help however, you feel it is your duty to let the public know of the problem and you'll be picketing, not on dealer property but in clear view of the entrance on Saturdays

She already said that the Dealer has been very helpfull. Why would she want to picket them?

Ann,

Do not listen to this guy, he is a punk. Your dealer gave you the right way to go. Just call the BBB and work with your dealer. It only takes about a month or two when you go that route.

[TravelGrrl]

Thanks all for the feedback.

I went to pick up my car today after a week of repairs, and the Gen Mgr of the dealership stopped to talk to me. He again told me the best way to get GM's attention is to file the BBB complaint. He's under the impression it should be resolved before it gets to the arbitration point.

You know, I've had two Chevy SUVs before this car and I really loved them both. I've tried to be amicable with both the dealership and GM, and suggested to them I would be willing to be a paying customer for another 4-years on a new car loan, IF they would just get me out of the convertible!

Really, it's stupid on their part not to buy the car back. According to my service records (which I got today) I've had 5 separate convertible tops put on that car. It seems to me they would be better off financially locking me into a new car and taking the loss on this one at auction, rather than to keep paying for new tops!

While I have thought about doing the media thing (I'm a former news producer and assignment editor - I know the biz and certainly have the contacts) I'm in a precarious position. I now work in advertising, and this particular dealership spends almost a million dollars a year with my company. That relationship is probably the reason they are being so helpful to me. But be assured, I am NOT letting up on this.

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens next.

Ann

[davidlane]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

She already said that the Dealer has been very helpfull. Why would she want to picket them?

Ann,

Do not listen to this guy, he is a punk. Your dealer gave you the right way to go. Just call the BBB and work with your dealer. It only takes about a month or two when you go that route.

I acknowledged the fact the dealer seems to be cooperative. She wants to picket them, if necessary, because she wants the problem resolved. The dealer can help with this process, but in my experience, will need to be pushed to help. So far he has been all talk and no results. Unless you have ever been through this process yourself, your opinion is just that an opinion. My suggestion for you based on the gratuitous personal insult is to enjoy a large cup of "Shut the f*** up."

[MrCritical]

Here's what happened.

The dealer is stuck with a poor design vehicle to sell. He/She doesn't get to find out it's a piece of crap till they sell a few and they start to screw up.

All the hard work and well trained techs in the world can't keep a G6 Convertible in proper working order. Get someone to take the trim panels off the convertible top mechanism and let you watch it. It's something straight out of Rube Goldberg. It amazes me that it works once when the salesperson demo's it for the sale.

The panoramic sunroof was another major malfunction waiting to happen.

[page2171]

Not a real constructive comment, but...

she good threaten to never buy another Pontiac.

[pontiacjs]

Sorry Dave I should not have called you a turd. It just drives me nuts when I hear someone give such poor and destructive advice. Do you honestly think that the dealer wants her to have a problem with her car? Do you think that GM wants her to have grief with one of thier products? GM has a process for takking care of customers who are in this situation.

I have helped 3 of my customers over the years to go through the painfull process of a buy back. The dealer can do nothing other than make repairs and do thier best to fix the problem. The only way to get GM involved in the Buy back process is to start with the bbb. It is right there in black and white in the warranty booklet that is provided with every new car delivery.

Her beef is not with the dealer, it is with the product. If she was getting poor service, or dealing with rude and abrasive dealer employees, then I would agree with you that she should picket and cause greif for the dealer.

Why should she hurt and cause financial difficulties for the hard working men and women of a dealership who is guiding her as to how to get into a new vehicle?

By the way all 3 of the customers that I have helped through this process have bought several new cars from me since.

[TravelGrrl]

For what it's worth, I got word from the BBB that my case is officiallly opened - apparently I sent in the correct paperwork.

I did get a call from my GM customer rep telling me she could never get in touch with the District Rep who told the dealership they wouldn't buy back my car because "all of the issues are under warranty."

I had asked her to have that rep call me, so I could fully understand what led him to his decision. She told me she that while she had tried for more than a week, she couldn't reach him. Right. I would lose my job if someone from my office couldn't reach me!

She also told me she had been in touch with the dealership and they told her they had advised me to go the BBB route, so she said with that in mind, she could no longer talk to me.

So now I guess its a waiting game to see what happens next.

[yukonho]

Well I wish you luck. Here in Michigan the Lemon Law isn't as good as the piece of paper it is written on. Hopefully the BBB will help out on this.

And just for the record to some of those above...I have a 2008 G6 convert that has 13k miles. There have been no problems with it. I have the oil changed and tires rotated but that's it. Great mileage and somewhat peppy, I am very happy with my purchase. The only thing wrong was when I tore my ACL and had the full brace on my leg. I could not get in the drivers side so I have to drive my wife’s Tahoe. Another month of physical therapy and I should be able to get in and out pretty good.

[TravelGrrl]

Yukon - I agree, it's a fun car to drive! I do wish mine just wasn't in the shop so much!

Of course I just read today that GM is just counting the day until it files for bankruptcy. I don't know what that means for my BBB complaint. Somehow I have a feeling I am waaaaaaay on the back burner now! (not like I was ever on the front burner!)

[caddycruiser]

I filed a BBB case for my '08 G6 GT coupe that was a lemon at even the prompting of an initial GM rep who worked with me to find a solution, with the main issue that it had been in xxx number of times but still not 3x at least for each of the problems, and each verified. But clearly something was wrong.

Filed on a Tuesday via online with the BBB, requesting an equivalent replacement as a solution to the problems, and by Thursday a GM rep who works with the BBB cases called me to go over everything, get my info, find out in detail about the problems, etc. She was terrific, and continued to be as such throughout the entire process. We had weekly or twice weekly check ins, depending on the stage, and my biggest help was that I started videotaping every day the things that were going on and not fixed, would upload them, and send her the links. That was tremendous help to them, as I was told repeatedly--"we rarely get to see and hear the problems in live video, ourselves". Eventually, by the book, a final repair attempt was scheduled, parts replaced and they had the car for 3 days, and by the time I got it back...surprise, the same issues continued and even more in relation. Once the rep heard this by the next week, she and the district rep agreed that for 3 months and barely 3k miles I was having way too many problems and aggravation and they would gladly do a trade repurchase, swapping whatever new GM vehicle I wanted onto my existing lease. That process then took some time, as well, as it's a lot of paperwork, but otherwise was smooth as could be.

The GM reps in a lot of these cases are generally great, but you also have to be. I was livid almost daily with what was going on, but me being nasty to the reps trying to help wouldn't help anyone. They will help directly with a GM filed case if the problems are, by law, to the right mandates but if not (like mine...despite about 8 mixed visits), a BBB filing helps greatly, jumps you to the next level in GM, and usually helps to get things resolved in one way or another. Document everything in great detail, don't be a jerk to the dealer or GM even if you're drawn to it at times, file the case, and follow through with everything, asking for a reasonable response. In your case, generally a replacement car of equal value (naturally, much easier than saying "I want my money back and I'll never buy another GM vehicle"), or whatever you really want.

[WS614001]

Research the Lemon Law for your state and then contact a lawyer. I had to do this with a 1997 Pontiac Trans Am WS6. Everytime the car got wet, the interior light would come on. I took it to the dealer 9 times for the problem and they couldn`t fix it. I had the car for 18 months and had 38,000 miles on it. My lawyer got me $26,500 for the car and I only paid $27,000 for it. Just make sure you haven`t done any mods to it.