2012 sonic 2LT disappointment :(

[LetsRace]

Sounds like computer problems...

[hmae37]

To the OP: your post sound like venting. I'm sure you are frustrated, but you have done a fairly poor job of describing exactly what your car is doing. If this is how you are explaining it to the techs, I'm not surprised you aren't getting somewhere.

Troubleshooting car problems is a bit of scientific observation and a bit of detective work. Every and all details matter -- they might provide clues to what your car is doing and why it it doing it.

So far, the only actual symptom I can glean from your posts is that the engine has stalled while the car is in motion. That's definitely NOT normal! Every time this happens note all details you can: how long had the car been running before it stalled? What kind of driving? What were you doing when it stalled -- crusing, accelerating, braking? Were any warning lights on at the time? What was the fuel level? Every and all details might help narrow down the problem.

Do the same with every complaint you have around drivability as they all may have a single root cause. Equally as important, logging and tracking the issue clarifies that you have a specific complaint -- it's not just you don't like the way your car drives.

Thanks for your reply, yes it is partially venting but also voicing my complaint. Am I in the right forum? It said complaints... Please forgive my poor explanation as I am not a mechanic. Please feel free to provide tuition for a proper automobile mechanics training and I will happily attend to provide you with a better explanation. I have also not had the dealer provide me with a possible proper verbiage for explaining the symptoms. So to provide more detail as you wish, here it is:

When stalled, it was mid June. Air conditioner on, I was accelerating through an intersection. It was shifting in about 3rd gear, I have children and was not expecting this to happen so I apologize for not knowing the gear, I was a bit more interested in hearing how my daughter's day at school went. I was driving for about 30-45 mins about already before this stall happened. Fuel level was about 3/4 of a tank.

I have provided as much detail as possible throughout my multiple visits. I describe the details of when they happen, I explain it acts like an old pickup. I had a 73 international in 2001-2003. It drives similar. I have never had any warning lights on, even when they found a code for a misfire, no check engine light. P0300 was that code. No check engine light. They had no idea how to fix, since there was no corresponding cylinder that code was for. They called GM and were instructed to check solenoid and replace the actuators. They did so. It did not resolve the issues. It fixed a nasty knock I had at start up. That was it.

As far as more detail for the other symptoms:
When rough idle: anytime whether driven for 30 mins or cold. It idles rough in drive at a stop, in park, in neutral. Whether it is cold outside or warm. While driving the vibration from the engine power happens anytime of day, cold or warm, whether driven 30 mins or cold. Both with or without heat or a/c.

The Shifting: Please forgive this poor explanation, when upshifting into any gear, it has a "kick" or a "putt" feeling at times, this just depending on the speed. When between 20-45 mph it will jerk when upshifting. downshifting is mostly smooth except between 20-30 mph in traffic. Both on any given day, warm or cold outside. As expected with an automatic it is worse when the engine is colder but just by a hair compared to when warm. With or without heat or a/c. It jerks at times, this is intermittent and I am unable to pinpoint specifics as to when the jerking happens.

The Chugging feeling: while accelerating at somewhat higher speeds. 40-60mph. This was first described to dealers as to what a "misfire" felt like. It started mostly at acceleration and coasting as a light jittery feeling. I am not sure how you explain the feeling of a misfire. I apologize, this is now a feeling of a chug, if you have owned an older car that has higher mileage and no DOHC, that feeling when that old car was trying to get up a hill and you could feel the motor struggling. This is felt whether motor or weather is warm or cold. Highly noticeable at higher speeds 50-70 mph and the motor has topped out on gears. But can be felt when coasting on a smooth road at any speed.

Hope that helps. As far as details to dealers, I have provided as much detail as described above. I have used examples. Please do not take me for an idiot. I do try to provide as much detail as possible. The conditions of when something happens is given. I do try to take note of when specifically some things happen but some are so frequent that I can not pin-point exactly the motor-transmission conditions in which they happen, especially when my son is rambling in the back seat. I don't drive to just diagnose the vehicle. I go to and from work, to and from my daughters school and to and from the sitter, grocery stores, errands and so on. I truly explain with detail, and as I said I have been told "yeah, without codes there really isn't anything we can do". Have they been able to recreate some issues? Yes, at least they have told me as much, their response "without codes we don't know what to fix and with no codes it is stating it's functioning as normal". I have asked for someone to drive with me, this has only been done once. The "misfire" was explained as the car adjusting it's drive load, which is worse than before, and has never done this prior to the second to last visit the beginning of November.

I was told by a different dealer with the last visit last Wednesday(which GM techs drove my car), that something (forgive me I do not remember what he called it) was engaged all the time and it should not be, and there was a code for low voltage as well, but they were instructed by GM to only fix my window molding as it was warped (which was never ever a complaint, it was like that the day I got it and was told it would shape itself out with time). The could only fix what GM told them too. I provide you with the details I have. There is plenty more throughout multiple visits but if you thought this was a lot. LOL. Please understand while it has been frustrating and this complaint may seem as venting, I am voicing my experience. I have worked on vehicles myself a time or two. I do not know how the computers work on newer vehicles. But I do understand the mechanics of a car, which even still is the very heart of a car. My heart is broken but the brain is not telling the doctors that there is even a problem. So if there is a hidden illness the body dies, wouldn't that be a defect of the brain for no clues? As far as cars are concerned anyways. If the heart illness is shown as normal everywhere else does that bypass the illness directly? I used to love the way my car drives, it was smooth and just like a new car should be, now a yr old (bought in Nov 2011 and manufactured in Oct 2011). Now well I might as well have a pickup. gas mileage has decreased as well to 19-20 in city and 23-24 hwy.

Like the paragraphs?

[Neanderthal]

OP: Please read Tone's post (end of page 1) several times.

I also didn't see it. What is the car doing man?

Try an outline format next time.

http://www.wikihow.com/Write-an-Outline


Your lack of paragraphs and ability to get to the point are very frustrating, which may be why the dealer is having trouble helping you too.

Paragraphs, use them man.

[hmae37]

Oh and the only time anything has been touched under the hood or on the car was once by me when adding windshield washer fluid and all the rest by dealer only. And I remembered what the dealer said Wednesday, the Transmission Neutral feature was engaged all the time and should only be engaged when stopping. That is why my car jerks so much when pressure is on the gas or taken of at anytime. That has not really ever been a complaint as it is something all the 4 loaners and 2 rentals have done.

[solman98]

OP: Please read Tone's post (end of page 1) several times.



Try an outline format next time.

http://www.wikihow.com/Write-an-Outline


Your lack of paragraphs and ability to get to the point are very frustrating, which may be why the dealer is having trouble helping you too.

You must have missed the well written post above yours.....

[hmae37]

Again I apologize for the explanations. This is the only way I have to explain them in writing. I only have the information that is given to me from dealers and what is not given to me. Can you all please help with better explanations? Maybe I can take it back in with your explanations and they can quickly diagnose my car? I've asked for help before and get nowhere? Please ask questions and help me describe this better to your satisfaction because clearly as stated I am incapable.... help me....

[Tone]

Thanks for your reply, yes it is partially venting but also voicing my complaint. Am I in the right forum? It said complaints... Please forgive my poor explanation as I am not a mechanic. Please feel free to provide tuition for a proper automobile mechanics training and I will happily attend to provide you with a better explanation. I have also not had the dealer provide me with a possible proper verbiage for explaining the symptoms. So to provide more detail as you wish, here it is:

When stalled, it was mid June. Air conditioner on, I was accelerating through an intersection. It was shifting in about 3rd gear, I have children and was not expecting this to happen so I apologize for not knowing the gear, I was a bit more interested in hearing how my daughter's day at school went. I was driving for about 30-45 mins about already before this stall happened. Fuel level was about 3/4 of a tank.

I have provided as much detail as possible throughout my multiple visits. I describe the details of when they happen, I explain it acts like an old pickup. I had a 73 international in 2001-2003. It drives similar. I have never had any warning lights on, even when they found a code for a misfire, no check engine light. P0300 was that code. No check engine light. They had no idea how to fix, since there was no corresponding cylinder that code was for. They called GM and were instructed to check solenoid and replace the actuators. They did so. It did not resolve the issues. It fixed a nasty knock I had at start up. That was it.

As far as more detail for the other symptoms:
When rough idle: anytime whether driven for 30 mins or cold. It idles rough in drive at a stop, in park, in neutral. Whether it is cold outside or warm. While driving the vibration from the engine power happens anytime of day, cold or warm, whether driven 30 mins or cold. Both with or without heat or a/c.

The Shifting: Please forgive this poor explanation, when upshifting into any gear, it has a "kick" or a "putt" feeling at times, this just depending on the speed. When between 20-45 mph it will jerk when upshifting. downshifting is mostly smooth except between 20-30 mph in traffic. Both on any given day, warm or cold outside. As expected with an automatic it is worse when the engine is colder but just by a hair compared to when warm. With or without heat or a/c. It jerks at times, this is intermittent and I am unable to pinpoint specifics as to when the jerking happens.

The Chugging feeling: while accelerating at somewhat higher speeds. 40-60mph. This was first described to dealers as to what a "misfire" felt like. It started mostly at acceleration and coasting as a light jittery feeling. I am not sure how you explain the feeling of a misfire. I apologize, this is now a feeling of a chug, if you have owned an older car that has higher mileage and no DOHC, that feeling when that old car was trying to get up a hill and you could feel the motor struggling. This is felt whether motor or weather is warm or cold. Highly noticeable at higher speeds 50-70 mph and the motor has topped out on gears. But can be felt when coasting on a smooth road at any speed.

Hope that helps. As far as details to dealers, I have provided as much detail as described above. I have used examples. Please do not take me for an idiot. I do try to provide as much detail as possible. The conditions of when something happens is given. I do try to take note of when specifically some things happen but some are so frequent that I can not pin-point exactly the motor-transmission conditions in which they happen, especially when my son is rambling in the back seat. I don't drive to just diagnose the vehicle. I go to and from work, to and from my daughters school and to and from the sitter, grocery stores, errands and so on. I truly explain with detail, and as I said I have been told "yeah, without codes there really isn't anything we can do". Have they been able to recreate some issues? Yes, at least they have told me as much, their response "without codes we don't know what to fix and with no codes it is stating it's functioning as normal". I have asked for someone to drive with me, this has only been done once. The "misfire" was explained as the car adjusting it's drive load, which is worse than before, and has never done this prior to the second to last visit the beginning of November.

I was told by a different dealer with the last visit last Wednesday(which GM techs drove my car), that something (forgive me I do not remember what he called it) was engaged all the time and it should not be, and there was a code for low voltage as well, but they were instructed by GM to only fix my window molding as it was warped (which was never ever a complaint, it was like that the day I got it and was told it would shape itself out with time). The could only fix what GM told them too. I provide you with the details I have. There is plenty more throughout multiple visits but if you thought this was a lot. LOL. Please understand while it has been frustrating and this complaint may seem as venting, I am voicing my experience. I have worked on vehicles myself a time or two. I do not know how the computers work on newer vehicles. But I do understand the mechanics of a car, which even still is the very heart of a car. My heart is broken but the brain is not telling the doctors that there is even a problem. So if there is a hidden illness the body dies, wouldn't that be a defect of the brain for no clues? As far as cars are concerned anyways. If the heart illness is shown as normal everywhere else does that bypass the illness directly? I used to love the way my car drives, it was smooth and just like a new car should be, now a yr old (bought in Nov 2011 and manufactured in Oct 2011). Now well I might as well have a pickup. gas mileage has decreased as well to 19-20 in city and 23-24 hwy.

Like the paragraphs?

Thanks for the details. None of that seems normal to me. You mentioned something was engaged all the time and should not be -- was that the torque converter lock-up clutch by any chance? A regular automatic transmission allows some slippage between the engine and wheels, but this is inefficient when the car is up to speed. Modern cars also have a clutch which locks the engine and drive wheels together at certain points. This usually unlocks when accelerating and at slower speeds with lockup would cause drivablility issues.

That said, this would have no impact on engine idle. If I were a betting man, I'd guess a fuel or ignition issue, especially since you are already getting a code for a misfire. If I were a betting man, I'd guess ignition as electrical issues can be very intermittent in nature. The challenge, of course, is this intermittent nature of the problem. That said, it's under warranty and should be fixed.

Lots of others will hopefully add a bit more to this thread now that there's more details. Several have some good advice on how to deal with GM regarding warranty issues like these. One common suggestion is to try another dealership -- since it's under warranty any GM shop should be willing to look at it.

[ne_one]

Again I apologize for the explanations. This is the only way I have to explain them in writing. I only have the information that is given to me from dealers and what is not given to me. Can you all please help with better explanations? Maybe I can take it back in with your explanations and they can quickly diagnose my car? I've asked for help before and get nowhere? Please ask questions and help me describe this better to your satisfaction because clearly as stated I am incapable.... help me....

Have you only had the car evaluated at the dealership where you made the purchase or have you taken it to another dealer as well?

If you haven't been to another dealer, it's worth considering letting someone else go over the case history and get their opinion.

We're a user forum so we're not affiliated with GM. However, the company does have CSRs that are members of the community and they participate on the site. Hang in there and we'll see if we can assist.

[Avalanche13]

it does a multitude of things, shifts improperly and harshly, the engine power is lacking so much so that it stalls or vibrates the whole car while in motion and driving it as normal. And it, as I call it, "chugs along". It sounds unhealthy too, rough idle. It grinds here and there too. It's all been diagnosed as normal. Yes I have dealt with GM directly through contacting them and to no avail then through a BBB complaint. GM techs came out and drove it briefly. It was deemed as all normal functioning characteristics of the car. The things that are felt during normal driving are normal as I have been told. Which it is not after having this car a year and many loaners later. It is not normal. No codes are popping for it though. When my car has stalled while in motion there was never a light that came on, no code displayed for that either. The things that are intermittent are not found and left as not duplicated. They are intermittent on a daily basis but not when driving it around the block. It recreates itself with normal daily driving through traffic in city. I do not do alot of highway driving as I live centrally in my city. It's a mess. Sorry you didn't miss it but with all I've been through it so hopeless and thought no one cared to know of the issues it has.

I have one thing for you to try: disconnect the battery, clean the contacts and reconnect it. If you aren't comfortable doing that then have someone who is do it for you.

The reason I mention this: I had a friend with a 4runner that had very random electrical issues, it would die out (but immediately start up), the traction control would turn off for no reason, temp sensor would be way off, the clock would reset, etc. Turns out that the battery cable contact was dirty. Cleaned it and and the problems vanished.

Again I apologize for the explanations. This is the only way I have to explain them in writing. I only have the information that is given to me from dealers and what is not given to me. Can you all please help with better explanations? Maybe I can take it back in with your explanations and they can quickly diagnose my car? I've asked for help before and get nowhere? Please ask questions and help me describe this better to your satisfaction because clearly as stated I am incapable.... help me....

There is a GM Customer Service representative that posts on GMI named Katie. She may be able to help you.

Here's the link to her profile http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/m...ice-49047.html

One common suggestion is to try another dealership -- since it's under warranty any GM shop should be willing to look at it.

This is good advice. I'll add to it that this isn't limited to Chevrolet dealers, you can take it to a Buick or Cadillac dealer as well. Based on what you've said, you should probably try another dealer as they don't seem very interested in working with you.

[hmae37]

Thank you for your insight, Tone. I agree with you. Sorry for my explanations, they are as incapable as I am. I wish these would be looked at. I keep getting told that without codes they can't fix the problem, whether recreated or not. I have logged details with each issue but they have all been the same issues just getting worse. Sorry for posting on the complaint thread. Sorry I posted at all. Thanks again, God bless you all...

[ne_one]

There is a GM Customer Service representative that posts on GMI named Katie. She may be able to help you.

Here's the link to her profile http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/m...ice-49047.html

That's the one.

Note:

**Katie will be away from the office 11/21-11/27 for the holidays but will be sure to check any private messages you send when she returns to the office 11/28.**

Definitely send her a private message as well.

[ne_one]

Thank you for your insight, Tone. I agree with you. Sorry for my explanations, they are as incapable as I am. I wish these would be looked at. I keep getting told that without codes they can't fix the problem, whether recreated or not. I have logged details with each issue but they have all been the same issues just getting worse. Sorry for posting on the complaint thread. Sorry I posted at all. Thanks again, God bless you all...

Don't apologize... we're not all automotive experts.

Let us know the status of the dealership evaluations and try Katie.

[Tone]

Thank you for your insight, Tone. I agree with you. Sorry for my explanations, they are as incapable as I am. I wish these would be looked at. I keep getting told that without codes they can't fix the problem, whether recreated or not. I have logged details with each issue but they have all been the same issues just getting worse. Sorry for posting on the complaint thread. Sorry I posted at all. Thanks again, God bless you all...

Don't apologize! You have a legit problem and this thread can be useful to get a bunch of people who might know something to contribute. Now that you've provided some details (and thanks again!) check back periodically and see what others have to contribute.

[hmae37]

I am only sorry for posting due to my lack of ability to explain properly. It seems I am being judged harshly on how I have explained things and my absent writing skills more so than the problems I have. To keep it simple, I have been to 3 dealers. The last whom handle my BBB lemon complaint and the GM techs. They have been the ones I trust. By the way of helping with naming some things, including a transmission slip they found (which GM said was normal). It is out of their hands since I have dealt with GM directly now. I have been through GM cust assistance then passed to the "legal" area with my lemon complaint. The dealer has told me when unplugging the battery it is what causes the "car adjusting to the drive load" feeling. They unplugged when replacing the camshaft actuators. On the paperwork from the second dealer it says concerns not duplicated and no repairs made but the computer shows they replaced/fixed a fuel line. I have no idea if that was done or not. So I do not know if the fuel system was ever actually looked at. I appreciate your insight, it gives me a good direction or what I am to pay attention to while driving. Now if the computer would just show these issues then I could have the car I love back. not likely though. Any explanation suggestions are helpful though. Thank you

[hmae37]

My theory has been that the defect is the computer or "brain" of the car. There are some mechanical issues with the car and the computer is not picking up and throwing codes for some of them. I've never had a check engine light, even with the misfire code. The mechanical issues are a few I believe. Without codes no one knows where to fix it. With multiple issues one shadows another and makes it hard to describe and diagnose the way mechanics used to.

I only found out 2 weeks ago about some of the stuff on paper compared to what I was told, because I was not given paperwork at the times of service. But when I requested them there was alot of questionable things on there. The latest is disturbing, which I received a initial work order with tech notes at the time I requested the copies. It stated there were 14 bcm codes, no idea what those are and was told by the "legal" guy at GM that they are different than trouble codes. The completed paper copy I got in the mail today, states I drove a like model and reported they were the same, which I did not. In fact I told the service manager that the loaner drove loads better compared to mine. He shrugged his shoulders and said sorry, then he added some fuel additive and sent me on my way. That was it.

That is venting, I am sorry. Please know that I have had my car in to 3 dealers, with GM involved. Total attempts for same issues a total of 9 different times. I have been told many different things by 2 of the dealers. The first trip was in February and the rest to follow. There has been alot of communication and different explanations of things or no explanation at all.

Another symptom that is new, I paid close attention when picking up my daughter about 30 mins ago then on the way home, is when coasting at a steady speed, and slowing down maybe 2-3 mph(not braking) it will down shift with the slower speed but also shift itself immediately back up and the tachometer stays on the high side till it slows more by 4-5mph (or I brake) and shifts itself back down again and again. All without touching the gas pedal. Happening roughly around 30-40 mph, both while colder and also while warm with a bit a of a "kick" in the shifting. When shifting normal it would down shift and slow then down shift more. No lights come on, Any thoughts??