Hyundai VI luxury sedan caught testing

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by emh

So why is Hyundai not creating a separate brand (at least in the brand-obsessed North-American market) for these high-end vehicles? Or will this one not come here?

For a luxury brand, you need luxury dealerships, lattes, loaner cars for people getting service done, fast and professional service, a totally separate set of advertising campaigns, and a host of other expenses.

To recover the cost of all of that, you have to increase the cost of your products. Then you have a Korean luxury car competing against Lexus and BMW at Lexus and BMW prices.

So either way it's tough. Do you make a Lexus competitor at Toyota prices in a dealership network that barely competes with Toyota, or do you make a Lexus competitor at Lexus prices in a brand new, unproven luxury brand based out of Korea?

[FStephenMasek]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

For a luxury brand, you need luxury dealerships, lattes, loaner cars for people getting service done, fast and professional service, a totally separate set of advertising campaigns, and a host of other expenses.

That is one way of thinking, but what about another way which appeals more to those with real wealth, not the show-offs who are in debt up to their eyeballs? People with money know that somebody - the buyers - has to pay for all of that fancy stuff, and they would rather not pay for it. They want fast and professional service, but that deos not require a show-off facility. Plus, selling to people who can actually afford the car, not those who need to take out a loan just to buy the car, seems like a far better business model. I hope that Hyundai is following this alternate path.

[hotrod747]

My question is this: Why is GM allowing the competition to continuously eat Buick's and Cadillac's lunches?

[hotrod747]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

In what?

The two new luxury sedans. For some reason, GM is in denial as well.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

In what?

Cadillac Doesn't have RWD? Which is not true
Cadillac Doesn't have a V8 engine ? Which is not true, just because they cancelled the Ultra V8 doen't mean they don't have a DOHC V8 engine (And won't come form BMW)
There learning from the Genesis/VI sedan, before and/or as they build cadillac STS/DTS Replacement and Ultra Luxury sedan.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by Buick Riviera

Cadillac Doesn't have RWD? Which is not true
Cadillac Doesn't have a V8 engine ? Which is not true, just because they cancelled the Ultra V8 doen't mean they don't have a DOHC V8 engine (And won't come form BMW)
There learning from the Genesis/VI sedan, before and/or as they build cadillac STS/DTS Replacement and Ultra Luxury sedan.

Gm is not in denial, they first have too make the Zeta Platforum Buick and Cadillac pass that CAFE law, you know that law is not going away. And who said there were in denial? They are the first ones too by the car and steady it.

[IROCNROL1]

Originally Posted by paul8488

I hope Hyundai is succesful with the Genesis coupe and sedan, and shows us that not EVERYONE is worried about the badge on their car. If I get to the large luxury RWD sedan stage at some point in my life I'll buy something like a Genesis long before I'll pay more for the same at BMW or Mercedes or Lexus.

But Paul, isn't that putting common sense above prestige?

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

That is one way of thinking, but what about another way which appeals more to those with real wealth, not the show-offs who are in debt up to their eyeballs? People with money know that somebody - the buyers - has to pay for all of that fancy stuff, and they would rather not pay for it. They want fast and professional service, but that deos not require a show-off facility. Plus, selling to people who can actually afford the car, not those who need to take out a loan just to buy the car, seems like a far better business model. I hope that Hyundai is following this alternate path.

Indeed.
As Dave Ramsey says, the paid off house (or Genesis) replaces the (mortgaged) BMW in the driveway as the new status symbol.
Ironically, you're talking about people who want just luxury without the status symbol that goes with it.

Originally Posted by mgescuro

SSSSHHHhhhhhh....
Don't give them any ideas!!!!

They have all the ideas they need.
And they act on them, unlike some companies that are smothered in a dysfunctional bureaucracy.

Originally Posted by CACressida

Your right. Change what people think of Hyundai.

That process is ongoing and successful, IMO.

Originally Posted by paul8488

I hope Hyundai is succesful with the Genesis coupe and sedan, and shows us that not EVERYONE is worried about the badge on their car. If I get to the large luxury RWD sedan stage at some point in my life I'll buy something like a Genesis long before I'll pay more for the same at BMW or Mercedes or Lexus.

True.
I personally don't like the atmosphere at the Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, even Cadillac dealers. The nose is up just a tad.
Well, the last Caddy dealer I visited appeared to be populated by senior drunks in nice sport coats selling cars.

Guess I'm just common folk, I'll never be part of the New World Order conspiracy.

Originally Posted by IROCNROL1

But Paul, isn't that putting common sense above prestige?

Common sense: Not Yet Extinct.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

That is one way of thinking, but what about another way which appeals more to those with real wealth, not the show-offs who are in debt up to their eyeballs? People with money know that somebody - the buyers - has to pay for all of that fancy stuff, and they would rather not pay for it. They want fast and professional service, but that deos not require a show-off facility. Plus, selling to people who can actually afford the car, not those who need to take out a loan just to buy the car, seems like a far better business model. I hope that Hyundai is following this alternate path.

I'm a little confused by what you wrote.

Do you mean that you want Hyundai to keep doing what it is doing with its luxury models, or do you mean you want them to open a new luxury brand, but not go for the expensive red carpet treatment that people get at a Porsche dealership?

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

For a luxury brand, you need luxury dealerships, lattes, loaner cars for people getting service done, fast and professional service, a totally separate set of advertising campaigns, and a host of other expenses.

To recover the cost of all of that, you have to increase the cost of your products. Then you have a Korean luxury car competing against Lexus and BMW at Lexus and BMW prices.

So either way it's tough. Do you make a Lexus competitor at Toyota prices in a dealership network that barely competes with Toyota, or do you make a Lexus competitor at Lexus prices in a brand new, unproven luxury brand based out of Korea?

What Hyundai will need to do is take a good look at their service departments.

My limited experience with KIA and Hyundaiii!! service is that they are not even up to GM standards. I also read that at the H/K carnut websites.
The desk people are not the smartest or the most professional.

As I've suggested regarding GM and Ford, Corporate needs to visit every service department incognito to assess their capabilities and level of professionalism.
H/K will need some serious upgrades at service if they want to attract--and more importantly, keep--the 30-grand+ crowd.

I recently went in for an oil & filter, and IMHO the 1 1/2-2 hour wait for such an utterly basic service is just not acceptable.
I phoned the local Hyundaiii!! outlet today to ask about replacing my four-bolt hubs with the five-bolt used on the current Hyundaiii!! Servicegirl had no idea, she said the drums would have to be replaced.
Well, except they're discs.

[GrandPrix08]

I think I've heard some people complaining about Genesis not having the paddle shifter while the competition have it. I guess Hyundai have listened, since the Korean article I have put a link to says that the VI(I know, Korea only car) WILL have it availiable. Not sure as a standard or optional, but that means, it may make it to the US version of their cars sooner or later.

I still won't buy a Korean cars nor any imports for that matter but....

[Nico Flax]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

I recently went in for an oil & filter, and IMHO the 1 1/2-2 hour wait for such an utterly basic service is just not acceptable.

That is how long it usually takes for the Subaru dealership to do an oil change on my STI. Not sure what I think about it, it is long but perhaps I've gotten use to it. I rather they take their time, since they aren't the brightest, and do it right instead of the the latter... just the thought of the wrong amount or god forbid no oil, sends shudders down my spine. After I read about the guy who took his chevy to walmart and they started it with no oil.

I do oil changes myself but its a long story, bought some coupons cause the come with lots of free services. Seems like a waste to through away the free oil change coupons away... but then again.

[Bravada]

Some thoughts on the issue:

1. USA is the place where one can market a luxury vehicles with a relatively un-prestige badge. The only other place is Middle East. In other parts of the world, you need the brand even for much smaller and less luxurious cars.

1a. OK, this also works in Japan and Korea, though Toyota's decision to rebrand certain models to Lexus for JDM too changes the game in the former (Nissan is reportedly copying the move with Infiniti with the next model changeovers).

2. This large sedan is for ROKDM only, it replaces the oversized Equus/Centennial limo, as noted, to compete with the new Ssangyong.

3. I believe Hyundai might still be looking for an opportunity to buy an existing "prestige" brand.

[jry]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Some thoughts on the issue:

1. USA is the place where one can market a luxury vehicles with a relatively un-prestige badge. The only other place is Middle East. In other parts of the world, you need the brand even for much smaller and less luxurious cars.

1a. OK, this also works in Japan and Korea, though Toyota's decision to rebrand certain models to Lexus for JDM too changes the game in the former (Nissan is reportedly copying the move with Infiniti with the next model changeovers).

2. This large sedan is for ROKDM only, it replaces the oversized Equus/Centennial limo, as noted, to compete with the new Ssangyong.

3. I believe Hyundai might still be looking for an opportunity to buy an existing "prestige" brand.

Like the "Hyundai Viper"?
Should they have bought Jag?

[Bravada]

Jaguar would've been a nice fit, but I guess they didn't want the fuss with the British manufacturing facilities. In fact, they do have enough competency now to build a rather convincing premium car, they do not need an entire company, just a brand, one that can be easily separated from the mother company without associated tangible assets. I'd say one like Lancia or even Rover would come in handy.