GM heart Honda engines and beats Toyota but Jaguar rules

[SobeSVT]

GM rates Honda powertrains as industry benchmark after internal analysis of J.D. Power study
DALE JEWETT | Automotive News
Posted Date: 5/25/05

Honda Motor Co.'s powertrains are the new industry benchmark in General Motors' eyes.

Honda's engines and transmissions ranked first among those of six automakers included in an internal GM analysis of the latest J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study data.

Honda powertrains had 15.3 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days of ownership, according to data in the GM analysis obtained by Automotive News.

GM powertrains were second-best on the list -- ahead of Toyota Motor Corp. for the first time in eight years. Toyota ranked No. 1 in the GM analysis last year.

GM would not discuss the calculations it performed on the J.D. Power data to rank itself and five key competitors: Honda, Toyota, Nissan Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler and Ford Motor Co.

J.D. Power does not make its powertrain surveys public, but sells the reports to automakers for internal use. Buying the reports gives automakers access to the consultant's database of survey responses. GM compiled its rankings from the raw data.

GM regularly uses data from J.D. Power studies to study product quality and make improvements, spokeswoman Janine Fruehan said.

"Based on the data we have, we do feel that our automatic transmissions are industry-leading," Fruehan said. "Beyond that, I can't comment on an internal study."

According to the GM analysis, GM powertrains had 18.1 problems per 100 vehicles. Nissan ranked third among the six automakers at 18.3 problems per 100.

Toyota, last year's leader in the GM analysis, slipped to fourth this year. Its powertrains had 18.7 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's rankings, compared with 16.4 last year.

DaimlerChrysler powertrains had 24.3 problems per 100 vehicles, GM calculated. Ford had 26.6 problems per 100 vehicles.

Raw J.D. Power data included in the GM analysis indicate that Honda performed well in engine quality. Its engines had 10.1 problems per 100 vehicles in 2005, down from 11.8 in 2004.

GM ranked powertrain quality on a corporate basis, but also produced a ranking of 22 brands. In that list Jaguar came out on top, with 9.3 problems per 100 vehicles. Infiniti was second, and Buick was third, ahead of Toyota's Lexus Division. Cadillac placed fifth in the by-brand rankings of powertrain quality.

A J.D. Power spokesman would not comment on GM's analysis.

The Initial Quality Study, released Wednesday, May 18, asked owners to rate vehicle quality on 135 attributes across nine categories after 90 days of ownership. The categories include ride and handling, engine and transmission and fit and finish.

[303montecarlo]

Originally Posted by SobeSVT

GM rates Honda powertrains as industry benchmark after internal analysis of J.D. Power study
DALE JEWETT | Automotive News
Posted Date: 5/25/05

Honda Motor Co.'s powertrains are the new industry benchmark in General Motors' eyes.

Honda's engines and transmissions ranked first among those of six automakers included in an internal GM analysis of the latest J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study data.

Honda powertrains had 15.3 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days of ownership, according to data in the GM analysis obtained by Automotive News.

GM powertrains were second-best on the list -- ahead of Toyota Motor Corp. for the first time in eight years. Toyota ranked No. 1 in the GM analysis last year.

GM would not discuss the calculations it performed on the J.D. Power data to rank itself and five key competitors: Honda, Toyota, Nissan Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler and Ford Motor Co.

J.D. Power does not make its powertrain surveys public, but sells the reports to automakers for internal use. Buying the reports gives automakers access to the consultant's database of survey responses. GM compiled its rankings from the raw data.

GM regularly uses data from J.D. Power studies to study product quality and make improvements, spokeswoman Janine Fruehan said.

"Based on the data we have, we do feel that our automatic transmissions are industry-leading," Fruehan said. "Beyond that, I can't comment on an internal study."

According to the GM analysis, GM powertrains had 18.1 problems per 100 vehicles. Nissan ranked third among the six automakers at 18.3 problems per 100.

Toyota, last year's leader in the GM analysis, slipped to fourth this year. Its powertrains had 18.7 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's rankings, compared with 16.4 last year.

DaimlerChrysler powertrains had 24.3 problems per 100 vehicles, GM calculated. Ford had 26.6 problems per 100 vehicles.

Raw J.D. Power data included in the GM analysis indicate that Honda performed well in engine quality. Its engines had 10.1 problems per 100 vehicles in 2005, down from 11.8 in 2004.

GM ranked powertrain quality on a corporate basis, but also produced a ranking of 22 brands. In that list Jaguar came out on top, with 9.3 problems per 100 vehicles. Infiniti was second, and Buick was third, ahead of Toyota's Lexus Division. Cadillac placed fifth in the by-brand rankings of powertrain quality.

A J.D. Power spokesman would not comment on GM's analysis.

The Initial Quality Study, released Wednesday, May 18, asked owners to rate vehicle quality on 135 attributes across nine categories after 90 days of ownership. The categories include ride and handling, engine and transmission and fit and finish.

I would guess the 97000 power trains in the Saturn VUE helped GM with this study? That was the deal Honda to supply Saturn VUE for 5 years at 97000 a year.

[CrunkedRL]

Originally Posted by 303montecarlo

I would guess the 97000 power trains in the Saturn VUE helped GM with this study?

I would imagine so. Honda has always been really big on quality. I know in regards to my Vue if there is a problem with my engine during the warranty period Saturn (through Honda's & GMs agreement) will replace both the engine and transmission. I know with most other vehicles through GM this probably would not be the case. From what I heard Honda would rather replace the engine & tranny, study it to analyze what caused the failure to correct it as opposed to patching up an existing problem. This could be one the main reasons why Honda's engines rank the highest as far as quality. This doesn't necessarily mean that their technology is better, it just means Honda has mastered a better way of keeping quality up.

[Buicktech]

When GM sells cars by the millions per year, 97000 units is a drop in the bucket.

[MNdudeswitz]

Honda makes some of best engines around, they just need some help in creating a car or suv around that engine

[asim]

Honda really does make great engines, look even the VUE has it.

[J..D]

Vue has it as a trade off I thought, there wasn't a engine ready for it when it came out like Jeep did with the first Cherokee using the Chevy 2.8 till the 4.0 was ready.

[Johnny P]

I can say the same thing as a Honda tech. We do virtually nothing to our engines other than maintain them.

I've seen many over 300k and several over 500k with nothing other than regular maintenance.

The J-series V6 has to about the most reliable V6 on the market.

[Psionic Wibbly]

Honda's engines are good enough to fly a jet plane.

[chad4835]

If GM could use this information in advertisements they should. Perception is reality and the public perceives Toyota quality is better and therefore it is.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by MNdudeswitz

Honda makes some of best engines around, they just need some help in creating a car or suv around that engine

For the most part this is true.

They do overcomplicate things on a Lawnmower by using OHC.

[osv_alero]

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of replacing a timing belt every 60,000 miles at cost of almost $1000.

[markusername]

I agree Honda engines are very well made. I think pound for pound they might be the most gas efficient engine makers in the world.

Curious if others agree that Honda's tend to have the best mpg pound for pound.

[SnapOversteer]

Eh, Honda's aren't all that great, trust me. I have a couple of friends who are on their 2nd or 3rd automatic transmission on V6 models. One is a 2001 Accord and the other is a 2003 TL Type S. The TL is the one on its 3rd A/T, believe it or not.

Honda has warrantied these transmissions for up to 100,000 miles and around 7 or 8 years I believe.

The engines are fine, but they could use some low-end grunt.

[AndrewGS]

If only Honda could engineer some torque.