Foreign car makers are running away with Caddy's show

[Sal Collaziano]

Since the article is about the Genesis, I figured it was best to go here. However, my rant is about Cadillac.. So go figure.. Move it wherever you feel it's best suited..........

Originally Posted by The Truth About Cars

The Hyundai Genesis 4.6 is the car Lexus made in 1989, and the one Detroit killed decades ago.

Ya see? This disappoints me.. This goes to show that foreign car makers are running away with "Caddy's Show". Not everyone needs a CaBMWillac. If that were the case, Lexus would have never taken off in the 90s.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Lexus makes the best Cadillacs (these days). ACTUALLY - I have to update that statement - because Lexus sucks for anything but the LS460 anymore. Still, the LS460 is exactly what I imagined a 2008 Cadillac would be (now) in the past.

Now you have the Genesis.. It's getting rave reviews everywhere and people swear it's a Town Car in disguise. If Lincoln would have simply updated the Town Car with Genesis-like power and technology, it would be the best selling full-size American luxury car on the market. Same would have gone for the Cadillac Fleetwood.

I know that "most people" here do NOT like "Classic" Cadillacs. And "most people" believe that Cadillac has come as far as they have because they've become a youthful BMW clone. But I don't believe that. I believe that Cadillac could still be "traditional" AND successful by selling big, comfortable, soft-riding (but excellent handling like the Genesis) LUXURY cars.

Isn't that how Lexus became so successful? Now they're FAILING because they tried too hard to become BMW - making the same mistake (in my eyes) that Cadillac made.

So maybe the two or three people here brave enough to "admit" they prefer the traditional Cadillac can give me a little "yeah!"...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...sis-46-review/

[Quickening]

Thats where Buick comes in, and takes the traditional rides and comforts of Cadillac and makes it their own. While Cadillac chases MB and BMW

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by Quickening

Thats where Buick comes in, and takes the traditional rides and comforts of Cadillac and makes it their own. While Cadillac chases MB and BMW

I'd love to see that happen but I find it hard to believe it will.. We'll see..

[61BelAir]

So the Genesis is a design that is comparable to a Lexus from 20 years ago? Cadillac may have made some mistakes but with the CTS and future cars in the pipeline I think they will be fine. Will they ever be the dominant player in the market again? Doubtful, but that is the nature of the business. In this global market competition breeds better cars. Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes pushed the bar up and now Cadillac is benchmarking these cars, which is not something you could have said about Cadillac 10 years ago. Genesis will make it sales and turn some heads, but those heads will be the import lovers anyways.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by 61BelAir

Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes pushed the bar up and now Cadillac is benchmarking these cars, which is not something you could have said about Cadillac 10 years ago. Genesis will make it sales and turn some heads, but those heads will be the import lovers anyways.

I have to disagree, 10 years ago, in 1998 GM and Cadillac OWNED the upper luxury midsized market The STS/SLS Sevilles sold more then the 5's LS's and E's COMBINED. That car had an amazing interior, Better performance, and initial reliability up there with the very best. You got more, paid less, and the car was drop dead gorgeous. It was better then being bench-marked against those cars... It dominated them...

What happened? Well in 2005, under the direction of Lutz, they made the car smaller, funny looking, gave it a bland interior, went from long and lean to short and stubby, and the motor that was in a class by itself in 1993 and competitive in 1998 was mid to bottom of the pack in 2005...

Sales? Well, the sales tanked.

It wasn't ten years ago the Cadillac stopped competing, it was about 4 years ago
Right now Cadillac has ONE car that sells; JUST ONE... pretty hard to be chasing any one let alone BMW or MB with ONE car.

[Sal Collaziano]

I agree with 2002 Caddy.. Though Lexus had Cadillac beat with their 1998 GS400 (in power and refinement), but the STS looked much nicer. It was still a "Cadillac". The new STS is a lesser car as far as I'm concerned...

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

The new STS is a lesser car as far as I'm concerned...

I can only add... In the words of my departed Grandfather...

[Lutz], You broke it, go fix it.

[61BelAir]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

I have to disagree, 10 years ago, in 1998 GM and Cadillac OWNED the upper luxury midsized market The STS/SLS Sevilles sold more then the 5's LS's and E's COMBINED. That car had an amazing interior, Better performance, and initial reliability up there with the very best. You got more, paid less, and the car was drop dead gorgeous. It was better then being bench-marked against those cars... It dominated them...

What happened? Well in 2005, under the direction of Lutz, they made the car smaller, funny looking, gave it a bland interior, went from long and lean to short and stubby, and the motor that was in a class by itself in 1993 and competitive in 1998 was mid to bottom of the pack in 2005...

Sales? Well, the sales tanked.

It wasn't ten years ago the Cadillac stopped competing, it was about 4 years ago
Right now Cadillac has ONE car that sells; JUST ONE... pretty hard to be chasing any one let alone BMW or MB with ONE car.

Cadillac stopped competing in 1996 when they decided to kill their only RWD offering at the time, the Fleetwood, which was a big old boat. Yes, they did own the market, but the competition was already eating into Caddy's market share. Caddy switched to FWD exclusively, which in my opinion has no place in a Luxury car. They were arrogant in their thinking that they could build whatever they wanted and the public would buy it. They did the same thing with all their other brands and look where they are now.

[2002 Caddy]

You make a good point, imagine how great a car it would have been if the 1998 STS/SLS was RWD... The only problem with the 98-2004 cars were the FWD powertrain... For some FWD is a deal breaker... for others no so much... (I drove an Allante too BTW)

To GM's credit, they did fix that problem with the car... BUT in exchange for fixing that one issue they created a car that doesn't sell. And truly, it is NOT competitive against the 5, GS, LS, E or anything else... In terms of sales, refinement, or anything else for that matter, the car isn't even competitive against the C, 3, ES or the IS.

GM killed this car not in the engineering department, but in the design department.

And as an STS driver and lover this kills me too.

[CACressida]

I liked the Cadillacs of the 90s. Simple stying, a true Caddy. Now, it looks like something chiseled with shark teeth. Bring back Cadillac dammit!

[61BelAir]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

You make a good point, imagine how great a car it would have been if the 1998 STS/SLS was RWD... The only problem with the 98-2004 cars were the FWD powertrain... For some FWD is a deal breaker... for others no so much... (I drove an Allante too BTW)

To GM's credit, they did fix that problem with the car... BUT in exchange for fixing that one issue they created a car that doesn't sell. And truly, it is NOT competitive against the 5, GS, LS, E or anything else... In terms of sales, refinement, or anything else for that matter, the car isn't even competitive against the C, 3, ES or the IS.

GM killed this car not in the engineering department, but in the design department.

And as an STS driver and lover this kills me too.

How many FWD luxury cars does BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus make between them? Only 1, which is the Lexus ES350, which is just a dressed up Camry. Not one of the manufacturers I specified deserted the RWD lineup for FWD, because FWD is seen as something you see on cheap econobox cars from Toyota, honda, nissan and sad to say Chevrolets as well.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by 61BelAir

How many FWD luxury cars does BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus make between them? Only 1, which is the Lexus ES350, which is just a dressed up Camry. Not one of the manufacturers I specified deserted the RWD lineup for FWD, because FWD is seen as something you see on cheap econobox cars from Toyota, honda, nissan and sad to say Chevrolets as well.

Ya, I agree with you, pitching the Allante (which I bought and loved) as a FWD car was dumb... Even if it was a great car to take the Girl Friend to ski holidays on... Better traction then a Jeep...

But a FWD luxury car is against the trend and "nuts" (in-spite of the fact that the ES350 is Lexus' best seller by a huge margin... I have to remember that the next time someone says badge engineering never works)

You are right, the new STS is more competitive on the "dirty side".
But on the "shiny side" and the interior this car has no hope.

It pains me that this is OBVIOUS to everyone... and the sales numbers have reflected this since Oct 2004... And yet Lutz and GM just want this car to "soldier on"...

Its like a terrible song on the radio... Maybe if they just play it enough times people will start to like it... Thing is there are just way too many other gorgeous rear and front wheel drive cars to pick from (including the CTS and soon to come CTC) to consider an ugly duckling

[ChevroletRevived]

Originally Posted by Quickening

Thats where Buick comes in, and takes the traditional rides and comforts of Cadillac and makes it their own. While Cadillac chases MB and BMW

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. GM really needs to position Buick to take this role. A stylish Lexus competitor. The Genesis does look really nice in these pictures, I'll agree to that; it's an impressive vehicle no doubt.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by ChevroletRevived

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. GM really needs to position Buick to take this role. A stylish Lexus competitor. The Genesis does look really nice in these pictures, I'll agree to that; it's an impressive vehicle no doubt.

These 2010 Buick LaCrosse is a impressive vehicle, the real car. And it will take the role of stylish lexus competitor.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by Buick Riviera

These 2010 Buick LaCrosse is a impressive vehicle, the real car. And it will take the role of stylish lexus competitor.

Wasn't the previous Lacrosse supposed to do that too?