EVO magazine: Z06 faster than GTR

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by Almag

Using the same logic, GM could've equipped the Z06 with better tires, but they didn't.

I'm curious how the braking distances would change over, say, 5 to 10 stops from speed. This shows the heat capacity of the brakes, rather than just their capability in a single cold braking event. Both are important.

Almag, There is not a single test where Z06's brakes failed or faded. You seem to hate the Z06. Why do you not join a nismo forum? There you can wollow in GT-R's greatness.
If you want to sit there and steer the car as it does its thing, enter into a GT-R, if you want to drive and enjoy a car, drive a Z06

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by Almag

You said: "The above poster said the Z06 had an unfair advantage because it's light."

Where did he say this? Show this.

Now you're just using symantics. He said:

So even if the Z06 was braking from say 102 mph the added bulk of the GT-R would put it at a decided disadvantage.

If the Z06 brakes from 102mph it's an unfair advantage to the GTR. The Z06 being lighter cannot make an unfair test fair....let alone turn the tables and put the GTR at a disadvantage.

You won't be able to, because he never said that. You're simply obfuscating his point. More weight = disadvantage. This concept really isn't so difficult to understand.

Bigger brakes and better tire = the Z06 was at a disadvantage.

Show me where the poster made the general statement: "More weight = disadvantage." You can't because he didn't. He said the GTR (specifically) was at a disadvantage because of extra weight. That is not true because more factors other than weight are involved in braking.

[Almag]

Okay thanks. So you concede that he didn't say the Z06 had an unfair advantage.

Here's some interesting data. Evo magazine's laptimes of the circuit they ran as part of the GT-R / Z06 / R8 / 911 GT3 story:

Bedford West Circuit Lap Times

1. Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.7
2. McLaren F1 1:21.2
3. Ferrari Enzo 1.21.3
4. Nissan GT-R 1:21.7
5. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 1:21.8
6. Audi R8 1:22.1
7. Koenigsegg CCX 1:22.3
8. Lotus Exige-S 1:22.4
9. Porsche 997 GT3 1:22.6
10. Ferrari 599 GTB 1:23.1
11. Porsche 997 Turbo 1:23.6
12. Porsche 996 GT3 RS 1:24.2
13. Ferrari F430 1:24.2
14. Corvette ZO6 1:24.5
15. BMW E92 M3 1:26.6

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by Almag

Okay thanks. So you concede that he didn't say the Z06 had an unfair advantage.

I certainly concede that I can comprehend what people are saying.

[Joevette]

Its cool to post data with no source link...

[Almag]

Nice attitude. Maybe you'd like to contribute something meaningful rather than your little snipes?

All lap times acheived in Evo's tests are listed at the back of their magazine. Pick up a copy and have a look. You might even be able to find them online.

By the way, if you guys want to read the entire article, it's posted here.

[Joevette]

haha, all i wanted to see was the article. well theres not much to contribute considering how the thread was hijacked by you guys arguing. But I find it strange about the reaction time with the braking. Tires/rotors aside what kind of reaction time was it? I think it would be better to have the same driver test both cars instead of a side by side. Would make it a little more comparable IMO

[redTT]

Originally Posted by Almag

Okay thanks. So you concede that he didn't say the Z06 had an unfair advantage.

Here's some interesting data. Evo magazine's laptimes of the circuit they ran as part of the GT-R / Z06 / R8 / 911 GT3 story:

Bedford West Circuit Lap Times

1. Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.7
2. McLaren F1 1:21.2
3. Ferrari Enzo 1.21.3
4. Nissan GT-R 1:21.7
5. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 1:21.8
6. Audi R8 1:22.1
7. Koenigsegg CCX 1:22.3
8. Lotus Exige-S 1:22.4
9. Porsche 997 GT3 1:22.6
10. Ferrari 599 GTB 1:23.1
11. Porsche 997 Turbo 1:23.6
12. Porsche 996 GT3 RS 1:24.2
13. Ferrari F430 1:24.2
14. Corvette ZO6 1:24.5
15. BMW E92 M3 1:26.6

GTR owners would have some very nasty surprise when they finally take the GTR out on the track, expecting it to be battling enzos . After several laps they also better have some spare pants because handling will become interesting in the GTR. My guess is that the GTR is a one (if not 3) lap wonder.

[Core9797]

Originally Posted by redTT

My guess is that the GTR is a one (if not 3) lap wonder.

And what's the basis for that claim?

[redTT]

Originally Posted by Core9797

And what's the basis for that claim?

Weight and the fact that its a 4WD.

As biased as they are, Best Motoring actually showed the GTR after several laps. A well setup RWD would IMO be better simply because its not eating up its front tires as much as a 4WD car.

[masrapido]

Originally Posted by redTT

Weight and the fact that its a 4WD.

As biased as they are, Best Motoring actually showed the GTR after several laps. A well setup RWD would IMO be better simply because its not eating up its front tires as much as a 4WD car.

The GT-R is heavy compared to its competitors, but it's not going to get any heavier during the 4th lap. As for the front tire wear, the GT-R is RWD biased unless additional traction is required. I may be incorrect, but wouldn't AWD prevent tire slippage and thus excess wear? I'd guess that AWD would yield more even tire wear.

[masrapido]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Almag, There is not a single test where Z06's brakes failed or faded. You seem to hate the Z06. Why do you not join a nismo forum? There you can wollow in GT-R's greatness.
If you want to sit there and steer the car as it does its thing, enter into a GT-R, if you want to drive and enjoy a car, drive a Z06

The traditional manual-equipped Z06 is a great car, but suggesting that you cannot "drive and enjoy" a car with a sequential gearbox seems crazy to me. The driver does more than just steer; he has complete and instantaneous control over the gears. I still love dumpin' clutches, but the GT-R is more of a "driver's" car than most vehicles on the road, regardless of its electronic gadgetry. I'll bet plenty of enthusiasts find a way to enjoy the standard slushbox on the G8.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by masrapido

The traditional manual-equipped Z06 is a great car, but suggesting that you cannot "drive and enjoy" a car with a sequential gearbox seems crazy to me. The driver does more than just steer; he has complete and instantaneous control over the gears. I still love dumpin' clutches, but the GT-R is more of a "driver's" car than most vehicles on the road, regardless of its electronic gadgetry. I'll bet plenty of enthusiasts find a way to enjoy the standard slushbox on the G8.

G8? What has this got to do with G8?

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by masrapido

but suggesting that you cannot "drive and enjoy" a car with a sequential gearbox seems crazy to me. The driver does more than just steer; he has complete and instantaneous control over the gears.

You mean you didn't know that a C6 Vette with a 6 speed automatic is not a driver's car, and that it's a *yawn* to drive. A 5 speed manual Chevy Aveo is a proper driver's car, and is much more fun to drive

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by redTT

GTR owners would have some very nasty surprise when they finally take the GTR out on the track, expecting it to be battling enzos . After several laps they also better have some spare pants because handling will become interesting in the GTR. My guess is that the GTR is a one (if not 3) lap wonder.

He also posted times from what is essentially an autocross track. Anytime the Exige is finishing ahead of the GT3 and Z06 and within .5 of the Gallardo - you know it's a tight track.

I'm wondering why none of these mags are doing a test between the cars. EVO had both cars right there on the same day and on the same track with the same drivers.

Could it be on purpose?
Do they know the Z06 would win thus killing the GTR hype machine?
Is Nissan's input involved?