A closer look at Toyota's sudden acceleration problem

[Dana_15]

Originally Posted by 70W30

And guess what, my vocabulary is bigger than your's. Try a new tact.

Try grammar and paragraphs when on the podium.

[Hunid Racks]

If this problem was as simple as the floormats getting stuck under the pedal the solution is simple. Replace the pedals with something that has more clearance under it. That option isn't being mentioned. I'm reading into that but isn't that an indication that the pedal isn't the problem to begin with?

[Hunid Racks]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

And in both these cases there is documented video proof of both of these situations happening? No, in fact there is nothing. It's the word of the two involved. Get the data from the black boxes. That will show what did or did not happen. What you say are documented cases are actually operator reports. Where's the supporting data from the vehicle?

Nice try, Epic Fail coming from ABC News. But you can keep on hoping. This is Audi all over again.

Dead wrong.

ABC news was exactly right when they reported that Toyota issued a statement that misled people into believing that NHTSA had accepted Toyota's explanation.

NHTSA came out the next day and issued a statement that they did not and that they did not care for Toyota trying to issue statements like that.

No matter how you try to twist this the truth is Toyota has another huge problem. This time they are killing people. In the past they just watched motors turn oil into gravy or frames turn into dust.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by 70W30

I'm sorry, but I would like to respect Fishfood. He talks about being a bigwig in this or that steel company but all he is here is a shill for Toyota.

Dude, claim this or that, but big words do not make a CEO.

You claims are more than enough to sink your ass. Facts sink you most every time here recently.

And guess what, my vocabulary is bigger than your's. Try a new tact.

Knowing words might work with some. Not me little man.

Originally Posted by 70W30

Remember one thing.

60 minutes BURIED Audi.

In that case it was wrong.

In this?

Not so much.

Those that love everything Toyota will not change right now, but remember one thing.

It starts somewhere.

Have fun typing in the darkness.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

Dead wrong.



No matter how you try to twist this the truth is Toyota has another huge problem. This time they are killing people. In the past they just watched motors turn oil into gravy or frames turn into dust.

Provide facts with proof and data from an investigative souce like an insurance company or the NHTSA.....or it didn't happen. I can see your blood begining to boil at the frustration of having nothing substantive. I know, I know hope springs eternal....keep hoping that something comes up. Chin up...

[Hunid Racks]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Provide facts with proof and data from an investigative souce like an insurance company or the NHTSA.....or it didn't happen. I can see your blood begining to boil at the frustration of having nothing substantive. I know, I know hope springs eternal....keep hoping that something comes up. Chin up...

How about you?

Provide facts and figures about every single incident has involved a defective floor mat.

When you have no facts or figures yourself, better demand them from somebody else to save face.

WE already know your answer.

Shift, squirm, run. Nothing. Pass on the factory BS.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

How about you?

Provide facts and figures about every single incident has involved a defective floor mat.

When you have no facts or figures yourself, better demand them from somebody else to save face.

WE already know your answer.

Shift, squirm, run. Nothing. Pass on the factory BS.

I never ever said that every single accident involved defective floor mats. First accuracy is important:

• ..the mats are not defective AFAIK, they protect the floors.
• ..it's the All Weather mats, not the OEM carpetted mats
• ..it's the AW mats that are not secured in place
• ..it's usually AW mats that are not secured in palce and stacked on top of other mats.

In fact I'm saying that it's the AW mats only when the NHTSA has found that these mats to have been present. Neither you nor I know how often this has been. But when the NHTSA has found them in the vehicles such as in SD there's a huge probability that they caused the U-A.

For the rest of the 'reports' I also am saying that no one anywhere has posted or discovered any evidence that shows any cause whatsoever. In other words....if there's no data, then it didn't happen. How can you make accusations with no data to back it up? I know that you can, you've been doing it all over these threads.

Show me the data and the evidence and I'll grant your accusations.

[BTW, 'reports' from alleged participants are not data.]

[plane]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

More info. Nothing new to add to what's known already.

NHTSA Releases New Info About Crash That Prompted Toyota Floormat Recall

Not quite.

"the Lexus ES braking system loses power-assist when the throttle is fully opened, increasing braking distance fivefold."

Let's let that sink in for a moment.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by CACressida

But if you put it in N-R or P, those are mechanically controlled. I'm not sure of how the ES350, but if the gear selector is actually linked to the transaxle via a conventional cable, then the driver didn't shift the selector in N,R,P. Just my theory.

I didn't know these ES things were that rare... as one of the few posters on this forum who has actually driven one of these uber boring cars (my parents owned one)...

Ya, Neutral is available at any speed and any vehicle RPM setting and No it is not locked out.... Reverse and Park are locked out at any speed over 1 or 2 miles per hour.. But N is there for whenever you need it... and the shifters have been like this for something like 5 years.

[plane]

Originally Posted by Dana_15

Try grammar and paragraphs when on the podium.

Are you his mother?
I thought we asked you nicely to actually contribute to threads instead of haranguing others?

Here's a great idea,
Why don't you go start a thread to showcase all the GM vehicles you've owned, restored, and just absolutely cannot do without.

You got that?
We'll be looking for the thread with 67 empty pictures.
Can't wait.

[ejfx]

I have been hearing this story everywhere...

NHTSA gave toyota a warning last week to be more truethful about this situation...
basicly NHTSA was giving toyota one last chance to come clean about what they know or NHTSA will blow the lid off the story with what they have learned while investigating.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by ejfx

I have been hearing this story everywhere...

NHTSA gave toyota a warning last week to be more truethful about this situation...
basicly NHTSA was giving toyota one last chance to come clean about what they know or NHTSA will blow the lid off the story with what they have learned while investigating.

Sorry you misread the notice. Post it if you wish and we can take apart what they actually said. In fact IMO they are saying the exact opposite of what you said above.
http://www.vosizneias.com/41366/2009...loor-mat-issue

NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design

[plane]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Sorry you misread the notice. Post it if you wish and we can take apart what they actually said. In fact IMO they are saying the exact opposite of what you said above.
http://www.vosizneias.com/41366/2009...loor-mat-issue

Sorry you just grabbed a choice fragment. Let's put the entire NHTSA bulletin in full view.

NHTSA 110409
Wednesday, November 04, 2009 Karen Aldana
Telephone: (202) 366-9550

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement today correcting inaccurate and misleading information put out by Toyota concerning a safety recall involving 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles:

A press release put out by Toyota earlier this week about their recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles inaccurately stated NHTSA had reached a conclusion "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured." NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design. Safety is the number one priority for NHTSA and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem. This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution.

NHTSA constantly monitors consumer complaints and other data. This comprehensive recall focuses on pedal entrapment by floor mats, but NHTSA will fully investigate any possible defect trends in these vehicles.

TIMELINE OF EVENTS

* On September 29, 2009, NHTSA issued a Consumer Alert warning owners of Toyota and Lexus vehicles about "conditions that could cause the accelerator to get stuck open." As an interim measure, NHTSA "strongly encouraged" owners of specific models to take out the removable driver's side floor mats and not to replace them any other type of mat. NHTSA warned consumers "a stuck accelerator may result in very high vehicle speeds and a crash, which could cause serious injury or death."

* On the same day, Toyota issued a voluntary recall of 3.8 million vehicles to address problems caused when removable floor mats push the accelerator pedal to the floor.

* NHTSA officials are meeting with Toyota to hear their action plan for redesigning the vehicles and correcting this very serious defect.


http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nht...earSelect=2009

[goblue]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Sorry you misread the notice. Post it if you wish and we can take apart what they actually said. In fact IMO they are saying the exact opposite of what you said above.
http://www.vosizneias.com/41366/2009...loor-mat-issue

Read the statement in full like Plane posted.

What they are saying is at this time some of the events appear to have been caused by a stuck accelerator. However, they also recognize that this isn't a significant problem in other cars, and are demanding Toyota redesign the interface so that even if drivers ignore this - a Toyota is as safe as anything else.

Step I: Educate the consumer that Toyotas are sensitive to floormat design. This is where the recall and zipties comes in.

Step II: Force Toyota to make changes so that Toyotas are no more sensitive to floormat problems than any other make of vehicle. This is necessary as NHTSA rightfully realizes that warning stickers don't really work, places like AutoZone exist, and that drivers are going to put things over their factory mats.

Step III: Continue to monitor and investigate. It's looking more and more plausible based on the exponential increase in complaints that there is an issue with the electronic throttle. That's why they even say in this press release " they will investigate any other trends in this vehicle. It's a politically correct way of saying - we're not in any way sure this is even the complete problem. This statement wouldn't be in the document unless there was a reason.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by ejfx

I have been hearing this story everywhere...

NHTSA gave toyota a warning last week to be more truethful about this situation...
basicly NHTSA was giving toyota one last chance to come clean about what they know or NHTSA will blow the lid off the story with what they have learned while investigating.

Ya, they are going to blow the lid off of the fact that:
1) The gas pedal is too close to the floor boards
2) That aftermarket and dealer installed all-weather mats get stuck in there holding the gas pedal open
3) And that when the driver panics and forgets to shift into neutral, they can (and do) die.

How can they blow the lid off of something that everybody not only knows, but pretty much 100% of the people agree is fact?

The NHTSA is not know for "hiding information" but we all love a good conspiracy now don't we.