A closer look at Toyota's sudden acceleration problem

[civilzues]

In light of a recent tragedy in which an off-duty CHP officer and three members of his family were killed, many have raised questions about what the true cause may have been.

According to a recent article in the Los Angeles Times, there may be more to the story than first explained by Toyota. Toyota issued a statement pointing to the installation of an improper floor mat from another vehicle, as we previously reported, as the cause of the crash. Then just one month after the crash involving the Saylor family, Toyota issued the largest recall in company history, affecting 3.8 million vehicles dating back to 2004.

More at the
http://www.leftlanenews.com/a-closer...n-problem.html

[civilzues]

Toyota is shining at the number one spot. This can only go worse for them!
what a horrible company

[1G6]

floormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloor matsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsf loormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloorm atsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfloormatsfl oormatsfloormats

The truth about Toyota can be heard above the coverup.

[killerrd2]

This is going to be one to watch!
From what I can tell, this has to do with some type of "issue" with the push-button start systems...and those push-button starts are appearing on more and more models!

[dr.gizmo]

This could be interesting even if you have a key these days the entire electrical system is controlled by computer and relays on most vehicles (GM Anyway). The ignition lock is simply an input to the computer and controls no power whatsoever. So when you turn the key off a computer has to decide to turn the vehicle off, you have no direct control. I have a feeling all automobile manufacturers are watching this closely.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by 1G6

The truth about Toyota can be heard above the coverup.

All kinds of smoke and steam are now visible and in some cases - literally I might add, fire.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time but -

Originally Posted by killerrd2

This is going to be one to watch!
From what I can tell, this has to do with some type of "issue" with the push-button start systems...and those push-button starts are appearing on more and more models!

True enough. However, worth noting, so far, this is a Toyota specific execution & problem.

That 'hug your enemy' or 'grab him by the belt' AKA" - aw shucks, I guess we all screwed up" ain't going to work - this time or, at least so far.

Originally Posted by dr.gizmo

This could be interesting even if you have a key these days the entire electrical system is controlled by computer and relays on most vehicles (GM Anyway). The ignition lock is simply an input to the computer and controls no power whatsoever. So when you turn the key off a computer has to decide to turn the vehicle off, you have no direct control. I have a feeling all automobile manufacturers are watching this closely.

On that last, in more ways than one.

This one issue while it certainly has legs of its own is not occurring in a vacuum.

Other related topics include :

Airbags

Seatbelts

Structure - both glass & steel

Fuel line

Vacuum Boosters

- just to name a few.


The 'stack' of all this - in other words these issues when taken together and which most definitely interplay amongst themselves - if properly and correctly developed has the potential to bring them down, as in all the way.

Given the peculiarities of the American Legal System, that last is not as far fetched as it admittedly sounds.

On the otherhand, too many people have too much at stake so at the very least, its most likely not to be fully developed and whatever is if any, will most definitely be 'minimized' and 'managed'.

( It is also possible that 'management' in turn, will not be quite enough ie they end up with a hard enough to hurt and hurt big crash 'landing'.)

Ironically, that kind of 'free pass' is actually part of what jammed them up in the first place.

They've never been held fully accountable for anything by anybody.

We can only hope - and pray that the truth - meaning all of it comes out.

Then it won't sound so off the mark to observe the other great truth about them and their products which is they have never - emphasis on the word "never" gotten any vehicle fully right.

Some people in Germany and the like have always understood this.

Oh btw, that Center for Auto Safety smear job on Chrysler and the 1993 -2004 Grand Cherokee is nothing more than a poorly orchestrated deflection attempt.

Don't be surprised if there is a lot more stuff like that - and similar coming up ie all other OEMS particularly the most direct competitors who will almost for certain receive this kind of treatment in a most direct fashion.

And really, is it not becoming apparent that the NHTSA is failing in its role visa vie Toyota ?

I imagine 'Hannah the banana' (and the others like her) - will be working overtime at Forbes as well.

[jzchev28]

Originally Posted by dr.gizmo

This could be interesting even if you have a key these days the entire electrical system is controlled by computer and relays on most vehicles (GM Anyway). The ignition lock is simply an input to the computer and controls no power whatsoever. So when you turn the key off a computer has to decide to turn the vehicle off, you have no direct control. I have a feeling all automobile manufacturers are watching this closely.

no, you are wrong, the ignition controls the power to the computer

[turbotoad]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

no, you are wrong, the ignition controls the power to the computer

Yes and no. The ingnition "key" controls the ingnition relay which may or may not shut off immediately when the key is turned off. There could be a few seconds delay to allow certain electrical components to do functional checks and/or store data to the computer.

[solman98]

OMG!!!!!!!!

To demonstrate the problem of relying on power-assisted brakes in the case of sudden and uncontrollable acceleration, the attorney for Guadalupe Gomez explained the details of his client’s case, “He [Gomez] was held hostage for 20 miles on a Bay Area freeway by a 2007 Camry traveling more than 100 mph. Gomez was unable to turn off the engine or shift into neutral and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver.”

And this is how you stop it in an emergency situation?

At the current time the only way to shut the vehicle off in a similar emergency would be to follow the directions outlined within the owner’s manual, which reads, “If you have to make an emergency stop, press and hold the ‘power’ switch for more than three seconds.” A Toyota spokesperson points out that this will also disable power assisted steering and braking.

Gives new meaning to Toyota's old saying... "Oh what a feeling". I think that feeling is, first you say it, then you do it.

[dr.gizmo]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

no, you are wrong, the ignition controls the power to the computer

GM has cars on the road today that the ignition relay is controlled By the BCM and nothing else. The ignition switch is nothing more than a series of calibrated resistors.

[PhishPhood]

This is hardly a closer look as the title suggest. It's essentially a rehash of the LA Times article which was a 'bump' of the original report of the accident and the initial investigation.

In fact this LLN article does nothing to add new insights or data to the situation. Until the NHTSA and the CHP complete the investigation nothing can be said. Everything else is speculation.

However certain issues are pretty certain.
All Weather mats are involved.
The Push Button Start/Stop is not very intuitive to kill engine power.
Shifting the vehicle to Neutral would likely have solved the problem.

Other than these three things nothing is known for certain until the investigations are finished.

However this statement from LLN is absolutely false...anyone know why?

According to a recent article in the Los Angeles Times, there may be more to the story than first explained by Toyota. Toyota issued a statement pointing to the installation of an improper floor mat from another vehicle, as we previously reported, as the cause of the crash. Then just one month after the crash involving the Saylor family, Toyota issued the largest recall in company history, affecting 3.8 million vehicles dating back to 2004.

The answer will annoy the sh** out of many herein.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by solman98

OMG!!!!!!!!




And this is how you stop it in an emergency situation?
.

Facts...Gomez was given a citation for his actions. You're reporting 3rd or 4th hand stories. In fact you / I / we don't know anything certain about the Gomez situation except...

• he drove for what he says was 20 miles unable to stop or shift to Neutral
• he was driving at very high speeds
• he crashed into another vehicle killing that occupant
• he was given a citation
• nothing is reported about what kind of technology was in the vehicle
• nothing was reported about what he actually tried to do ( the black box in the vehicle will confirm what actually occurred )

[dr.gizmo]

Originally Posted by turbotoad

Yes and no. The ingnition "key" controls the ingnition relay which may or may not shut off immediately when the key is turned off. There could be a few seconds delay to allow certain electrical components to do functional checks and/or store data to the computer.

This is from the service manual of a 2007 Acadia:

Serial Data Power Mode Master
Power to many of this vehicles circuits is controlled by the module that is designated the power mode master (PMM). This vehicles PMM is the body control module (BCM). The ignition switch is a low current switch with multiple discrete ignition switch signals to the PMM for determination of the power mode that will be sent over the serial data circuits to the other modules that need this information. The PMM will also activate relays and other direct outputs of the PMM as needed. The PMM determines which power mode (Off, Accessory, Run, Crank Request) is required, and reports this information to other modules via serial data. Modules which have switched voltage inputs may operate in a default mode if the PMM serial data message does not match what the individual module can see from its own connections.

The PMM receives ignition switch signals to identify the operators desired power mode. The PMM Power Mode Parameters table below illustrates the correct state of these input parameters (circuits) in correspondence to the ignition switch position:

Relay Controlled Power Mode
The body control module (BCM) uses the discrete ignition switch inputs Run/Crank Ignition 1 Voltage, Accessory Voltage, and Ignition 1 Voltage, to distinguish the correct power mode. The BCM, after determining the desired power mode, will activate the appropriate relays for that power mode.

[Gm_Tooler]

On future models, Toyota is said to be considering installing this simple dash-mounted device:

[Danko]

Sorry about the officer and his family but this is a stupid-sounding thread. A Toyota with sudden acceleration? I don't think so.............